Joiner Friendly

[swampyevilnut117]

This tutorial was for PC I don't know how much of this holds true with MAC users. I would imagine its almost exactly the same.
Well this is kind of a tutorial, or a list almost of what people without the modded map can see. Meaning if the host has modded thier map and other people didn't download it. It's going to be almost like a project I guess since I'm going to try and add as many helpful things as I can. Yes I know the tutorial is long, but you won't regret reading it. (At least I hope)

Techniques(for lack of better word):

PMI:As far as I know, they are not joiner friendly, or at least they will not see ANYTHING you PMI'd.

SP>MP or MP>SP:This I know is 100% joiner UN-friendly.

Lincoln Logs:Joiner friendly to an extent... According to my friends ingame, they could not see the logs, and I noticed when they were in a log box they couldn't see me when I was right infront of them.

Tools:
HMT: If you stick to mainly basic things such as changing a projectiles force, it should be joiner friendly, as long as you try to avaoid meta swapping and don't PMI.

HHT: I have had no problems with this so im going to give this a 99.99% joiner friendly.

Eschaton: Never really experimented too hard with this, but same as HMT, I think as long as you don't get too advanced with the mods it should stay joiner friendly.

Sparkedit: Scenery is not seen, meaning if you move a tree they will still see the tree in its usual spot and when they hit the new tree they lag like they keep moving but lag backwards to were the tree is. Teleporters are 100% joiner friendly. And vehicles and equipment and MP flags and spawn points are 100% OK to be edited and are joiner friendly.

Things To Avoid:

Changing the speed of vehicles or the speed, jump height, or walk on walls ability of the Biped itself, they have a very uncool effect in-game for joiners. Remember those people who host DevTrainer servers? Remember that annoying lag with the super jump? Its like that lag, but moving on the ground... the people who don't have map won't get an exception error, it's just not a fun modding experience for them.

Edited ROF's usually go unseen. Take the the [BC]Dangercane map for example, the pistol is really shooting at high ROF, but if you don't have the map the pistol is shooting at normal speed, you just hear the DING of damage being done.

Projectile Speed changes, they will still see the projectile moving at standard speed, except the object they were shooting is damaged faster and the projectile dissapears once it really dies.

Model swaps will also go unseen, no matter if you import a new model in HMT or just swap the Mod2 in HHT. They will not see it.

Bitmaps or decals or any effect change and so forth, such as flaming trails on the hogs, or maybe a flame grenade, or maybe you made the warthog with your friends name on it. They will not see this.

Fun Things To Try:
These next bunch of notes or whatever you can call them are just a bunch of different mods that I have hosted before that alot of people really loved.

Flying every vehicle, by setting all vehicles except for the banshee to fly like a pelican. Many people enjoy this mod, the only thing for almost every new person that joins, you must explain how to control the vehicles well or else they fly really fast into walls and complain. Also you must turn on the Immune To Falls checkbox in the BIPD tag. If you dont know what the Pelicans controls are,

Space=Vertical Upwards thrust
Control=Vertical Downwards Fall (landing)
W=Thrust Forward
S=Stop

Just a little note, for most vehicles (especially the tank) you need to do a complete 180 degree turn and be looking forward while landing to land rapidly while going nearly full speed.

Teleporters, this requires a little skill in my opinion. You need to not over place the teleporters or else it will take people an hour just to know half of the teleports. You also need to place them in good positions, so you don't have to run an obstacle course just to teleport to the middle of the map. Also make the teleporters fair, if its a map that has a mostly team balance, try to balance out the teleporters so that neither team has an advantage. If its a map meant for FFA you can probably just place them anywhere though.

Changing the force of weapons, alot of people really seem to like that. Where every weapon has a force to it, and I'm not talking about making the snipers shoot tank shots , I mean you have to make every projectile have its own force. With this mod, you can basicly just try out your own settings, but I usually try to give the weapons slightly realistic force. So that a pistol isn't throwing a Wrathog 500ft and a rocket sends it flying 10ft lol.


Well I'm going to keep adding to this as I think of new ideas or tips for you guys, but until then hope you like this tutorial and keep checking up on it for new additions. OH and please vote if you liked this or not

Thanks
-Swampy117

[bcnipod]

Changing the speed of vehicles or the speed, jump height, or walk on walls ability of the Biped itself, they have a very uncool effect in-game for joiners. Remember those people who host DevTrainer servers? Remember that annoying lag with the super jump? Its like that lag, but moving on the ground... very un-fun for the joiner...

actually i believe that if you host the game there is a way to modulate the speed of yourself and joiners, without having it be joiner unfriendly. unless you mean that it is not a good experience rather than meaning it causes an exception error.

[swampyevilnut117]

yes i mean its just not a fun experience, it will still let them join without exception error. Sorry, I had said that kinda wierd.

EDIT:
K I edited the original tutorial to say that instead, BTW, in the tutorial it never said they would crash it said "it would be very un-fun for the joiners"

EDIT2: Well the first update is done, I made it look a little nicer
Its allways nice to have a good looking tutorial.

lol

[XLoneXWolfX]

Teleporters are %70 joiner friendly joiners get a bit of lagg ; )


And, there is ONE way to have joiner friendly scenery...(I found this out messing with hht)

find a nice itmc to spawn the scenery with, swap the weapon tag with a peice of scenery, set respawn of the itmc to 9999, and dont move or touch the itmc if its moved no more joinerfriendlyness for scenery = ' ( lets just say swap it with a medpack in bloodgulch your going to have a tree or a rock or whatever on the top of the base move it clients see the rock where the medpack should be and not where the scenery is now(like if you moved a normal scenery in sparkedit, think of it that way.

sorry typed crappy I was in a hurry = P

Changing the speed of vehicles or the speed, jump height, or walk on walls ability of the Biped itself, they have a very uncool effect in-game for joiners. Remember those people who host DevTrainer servers? Remember that annoying lag with the super jump? Its like that lag, but moving on the ground... very un-fun for the joiner...

actually i believe that if you host the game there is a way to modulate the speed of yourself and joiners, without having it be joiner unfriendly. unless you mean that it is not a good experience rather than meaning it causes an exception error.

A friend of mine made an app for that I forgot his name(Hes never on xfire anymore = ( he converted the halo3 weapon thing to pc)

[Loor]

And as far as i know, on Macs, Control doesn't work for landing.

[bcnipod]

Macs don't PMI the same way. we recursively export useing HHK, then recursively import them into a map.

[Firefox101]

with escathon u can get pretty advanced and still be joiner friendly lol.
I do it all the time.

PS. bcnipod arent u root from whmt?

[Tyler777]

Macs don't PMI the same way. we recursively export useing HHK, then recursively import them into a map.

wrong

there is also rebuilding like windows with HMT .5 & C#MT witch is HMT 2.4 in its intirety and ripped down to nothing but a rebuilder and injector/tag reader

[Loor]

Well, i discovered that its "C" or whatever crouch is, on mac. Maybe the same on a Pee Cee?

[bcnipod]

with escathon u can get pretty advanced and still be joiner friendly lol.
I do it all the time.

PS. bcnipod arent u root from whmt?

yes

Macs don't PMI the same way. we recursively export useing HHK, then recursively import them into a map.

wrong

there is also rebuilding like windows with HMT .5 & C#MT witch is HMT 2.4 in its intirety and ripped down to nothing but a rebuilder and injector/tag reader

yes, but the whole process is not the same is what I was getting at.

[Firefox101]

Nice dudez it Sushi!
but lets take yesterday for example:
I imported the elite bipd to sidwinder and depency swaped the elite model and antr with chiefs: no one complained about lag or anything!

[bcnipod]

get ready for the spam flood!

[Firefox101]

FU u man im not like that no more!

[swampyevilnut117]

Well this tutorial is for mods that BENEFIT the joiners, to enhance thier Halo PC enjoyment.

I imported the elite bipd to sidwinder and depency swaped the elite model and antr with chiefs: no one complained about lag or anything!

If they don't even see it whats the point for the joiner then.

[Firefox101]

most fun for me! hehehe.
Then of course u can make anything with mods. lol'
Peole usually love flying vehi and super powerful guns combined with invinsibility.
But ofcourse theres always griefers!

[bcnipod]

FU u man im not like that no more!

is there a hidden meaning in that?

[Pepsi]

Techniques(for lack of better word):

PMI:As far as I know, they are not joiner friendly, or at least they will not see ANYTHING you PMI'd.


most all pmi attampts are joiner friendly if you are pming basic scenery and such. no people will not see the items you placed into spark edit but they will run into them or recieve damage from them. use for example a flame emitter. the host will see and be able to enjoy all the effects from it but the joiner will not see anything. the moment the joiner touches the flame they will except out of game due to jpt damage they do not have on their map the host map is telling them they need. the only sure way to have a successful joiner map is to...

1. use things that are already part of the map but arranged different.
2. make sure you null out all jpt tags.
3. coll can cause joiners to have weird lack or be "stuck" in some situations.
4. modifying weapons will cause a user to experience the feel of the effect but will not let them see it.


SP>MP or MP>SP:This I know is 100% joiner UN-friendly.

correct

Lincoln Logs:Joiner friendly to an extent... According to my friends ingame, they could not see the logs, and I noticed when they were in a log box they couldn't see me when I was right infront of them.


as i said above.. people will experience the coll of the model but can not see what you have done. when they try to pass through the object or stand on it they will simply lag cause of host vs. client conflicts in map data.


Tools:
HMT: If you stick to mainly basic things such as changing a projectiles force, it should be joiner friendly, as long as you try to avaoid meta swapping and don't PMI.

your still going to lag the joiner. also they will not see the effect of 100 rockets hitting the ground or something nub like that.


HHT: I have had no problems with this so im going to give this a 99.99% joiner friendly.

what? how is HHT joiner friendly? So your saying no matter what changes i make with HHT the result will always be ok for joiners? HHT gives quick power to null things out very quickly and that alone can lead to alot of exception problems. Dependacy swapping can also too in alot of cases. You can simply except someone by swapping 2 animations for a weapon and having them pick up a swapped weapon.


Eschaton: Never really experimented too hard with this, but same as HMT, I think as long as you don't get too advanced with the mods it should stay joiner friendly.


all that is telling me is your trying to cite critizem on a program you have hardly used. Its no where near the same as HMT and way more advanced them HMT and HHT combined. The statement .. "as you don't get too advanced with the mods" .. is what keeps people thinking log mods are cool. play time is over and people need to get more advanced or PC modding will grind to a halt.


Sparkedit: Scenery is not seen, meaning if you move a tree they will still see the tree in its usual spot and when they hit the new tree they lag like they keep moving but lag backwards to were the tree is. Teleporters are 100% joiner friendly. And vehicles and equipment and MP flags and spawn points are 100% OK to be edited and are joiner friendly.


all true to a extent


Things To Avoid:

Changing the speed of vehicles or the speed, jump height, or walk on walls ability of the Biped itself, they have a very uncool effect in-game for joiners. Remember those people who host DevTrainer servers? Remember that annoying lag with the super jump? Its like that lag, but moving on the ground... the people who don't have map won't get an exception error, it's just not a fun modding experience for them.

false. if done correctly all these things work fine. me and ness did a mod called "pepness playground" and all these effects and many others were in place and worked fine for joiners. no, they could not see the stuff we did visually but they experienced no lag in fast vehicles, wall walking, high jumping or other parlor tricks. the reason theres lag is poorly built mods or lack of bandwith from the host on thoes things.


Edited ROF's usually go unseen. Take the the [BC]Dangercane map for example, the pistol is really shooting at high ROF, but if you don't have the map the pistol is shooting at normal speed, you just hear the DING of damage being done.

Projectile Speed changes, they will still see the projectile moving at standard speed, except the object they were shooting is damaged faster and the projectile dissapears once it really dies.

Model swaps will also go unseen, no matter if you import a new model in HMT or just swap the Mod2 in HHT. They will not see it.

Bitmaps or decals or any effect change and so forth, such as flaming trails on the hogs, or maybe a flame grenade, or maybe you made the warthog with your friends name on it. They will not see this.

all thoes are gimmicks thoe and been covered thousands of times in numerious threads. this should be basic knowledge to everyone worth their salt by now.


Fun Things To Try:
These next bunch of notes or whatever you can call them are just a bunch of different mods that I have hosted before that alot of people really loved.

Flying every vehicle, by setting all vehicles except for the banshee to fly like a pelican. Many people enjoy this mod, the only thing for almost every new person that joins, you must explain how to control the vehicles well or else they fly really fast into walls and complain. Also you must turn on the Immune To Falls checkbox in the BIPD tag. If you dont know what the Pelicans controls are,

Space=Vertical Upwards thrust
Control=Vertical Downwards Fall (landing)
W=Thrust Forward
S=Stop

Just a little note, for most vehicles (especially the tank) you need to do a complete 180 degree turn and be looking forward while landing to land rapidly while going nearly full speed.

Teleporters, this requires a little skill in my opinion. You need to not over place the teleporters or else it will take people an hour just to know half of the teleports. You also need to place them in good positions, so you don't have to run an obstacle course just to teleport to the middle of the map. Also make the teleporters fair, if its a map that has a mostly team balance, try to balance out the teleporters so that neither team has an advantage. If its a map meant for FFA you can probably just place them anywhere though.

Changing the force of weapons, alot of people really seem to like that. Where every weapon has a force to it, and I'm not talking about making the snipers shoot tank shots , I mean you have to make every projectile have its own force. With this mod, you can basicly just try out your own settings, but I usually try to give the weapons slightly realistic force. So that a pistol isn't throwing a Wrathog 500ft and a rocket sends it flying 10ft lol.


im going to be nice and not comment on your ideas of what "fun" is.


now for my thoughts on all of this...
me and brightside were correct on calling you out in the thread when alt dropped the info on scnr. just by reading what you typed above you kinda showed me that you just wanted to ride on his thunder. as for you tut here you left out a TON!! of things..

1. name all the maps that can not be rebuilt and used for any joiner situation?
2. list prime examples of things that will cause absolute expection no matter what such as custom weather?
3. explain how you can make it so people can see weapons visual effects without having the host map?

theres 3 off the bat that need to be touched on since you wanted to add things to this. and before you ask something like how would i know any of this and such i can honestly say ive rebuilt every map halopc has to over dozens of times just with ftw alone. i know i did chillout 10 in one day. please get some more experience in PMI and making joiner maps before leading people to some false conclusions.

[swampyevilnut117]

what? how is HHT joiner friendly? So your saying no matter what changes i make with HHT the result will always be ok for joiners? HHT gives quick power to null things out very quickly and that alone can lead to alot of exception problems. Dependacy swapping can also too in alot of cases. You can simply except someone by swapping 2 animations for a weapon and having them pick up a swapped weapon.

Yes, but it wont cause problems if, you stay to very nooby things, like changing the assault riffle to shoot out rockets.

all that is telling me is your trying to cite critizem on a program you have hardly used. Its no where near the same as HMT and way more advanced them HMT and HHT combined. The statement .. "as you don't get too advanced with the mods" .. is what keeps people thinking log mods are cool. play time is over and people need to get more advanced or PC modding will grind to a halt.

#1. im not comparing Eschaton to HMT, I was saying that in the description, do the same as HMT, and avoid doing too complicated things.

#2. Pepsi this tutorial isn't really mean't for modders whos skill is beyond this. This is just a simple tutorial for newb modders to understand about joiner friendly mods, cause I'm beggining to notice TOO many servers saying "Pelican Mod", ot "Play As Elite" and so forth. Without providing map download links.

im going to be nice and not comment on your ideas of what "fun" is.

That in my opinion was uncalled for. And also did I even ask you to criticize my tutorial, no.

[Pepsi]

That in my opinion was uncalled for. And also did I even ask you to criticize my tutorial, no.

if you dont want critizem then i highly suggest dont posting anything anymore. see, the way forums work is when someone posts something, then someone replys to it. just cause you dont agree with there reply doesnt mean they are wrong. it simply means you can not handle critizem.

and in my opinion your telling people how to make joiner friendly maps and thats a intermediate technique since pmi, sp>mp and such was mentioned in your tut. you said this is for nooby people. thoes techniques are not for noobs.

so again.. your wrong.

Is This Helpful?
YES!!!
33%
33% [ 2 ]
NO
66%
66% [ 4 ]
Total Votes : 6

and 3 other people think so too. btw, dont vote yes for yourself. its tacky.

[sangheili]

There's always time for a grammar lesson. Criticism, not critizem.

This tutorial is helpful to a new modder, and not of much use to an experienced one.

im going to be nice and not comment on your ideas of what "fun" is

That was uncalled for. I presume he is stating what the general non-modding community would find enjoyable.