Unofficial Mega Science Debate Thread

Leiukemia · Post by **Leiukemia** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 4:08 pm

Even without the heat thing, the magnet idea wouldnt work anyhow. The ball thing wouldn't keep going, it would be pulled dead stop in the middle of the air. The only way to make it actually go is if you used energy to make the next set of slanted magnets stronger then the one it's in, then again for those, and so on etc.

Munsie · Post by **Munsie** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 4:37 pm

Donut shaped. Not just a circle. Middle would be taken out and replaced with a center pillar with the same magnet setup sort of thing. In theory it then has no middle to stop at?

turk645 · Post by **turk645** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 4:54 pm

gravity is the ultimate perpetual motion, just look at the planets

.

WaywornMmmmm · Post by **WaywornMmmmm** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 5:21 pm

Wrong-o.

Well, if you mean planet rotation wrong, but general gravity could be considered correct. The planets will eventualy crash into the sun therefore ending the cycle. Gravity could be considered perpetual, but does no mass = no gravity?

And I feel I am uneducated so please correct me if I'm wrong.

Munsie · Post by **Munsie** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 5:23 pm

No mass = No gravity, correct.

newbymodder · Post by **newbymodder** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 5:38 pm

wait can it really be considered perpetual? i mean if the planets crash into the sun, which they will then it will end and perpetual is ever lasting yes? or no?

bibbit · Post by **bibbit** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 5:43 pm

newbymodder wrote:if the planets crash into the sun, which they will

What silly liver told you that?

Kirk · Post by **Kirk** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 5:46 pm

newby, read what Wayworn said again.. :/

Gravity is not perpetual anyway, quite simply because there are other necessary forces needed as well. (example: A rock does not simply fall from the sky, it has to be put there.)

newbymodder · Post by **newbymodder** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 5:59 pm

bibbit wrote:
newbymodder wrote:if the planets crash into the sun, which they will
What silly liver told you that?

well if the sun doesn't suck up earth when it goes super nova then we will be flung into the deepest darkest coldest place of space until another sun picks us up. Because you know the sun will eventually explode then earth won't have any thing to pull on it.

Ya i read it all again now i get it.

Munsie · Post by **Munsie** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 6:08 pm

Perpetual motion debate -> What happens when the sun goes KABOOOOM debate? I'm in.

[cc]z@nd! · Post by **[cc]z@nd!** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 6:10 pm

on regards of the orbiting planets idea, it's extremely long, but not perpetual. stars have a limited supply of fuel, so once they run out, it's game over because how i figure it, when it runs out of fuel and goes red giant/supernova/black hole/dwarf star, it'll change in mass enough to throw off the orbits of the other planets. also, any little bits of matter that planets lose or gain can throw them off, and orbits aren't always perfect in the first place. i believe deimos (or maybe phobos) will eventually crash into mars because of it's imperfect orbit, so although solar systems is a good candidate, i don't think it cuts it...

and now that i think on a grand scale about this, i would have to say our universe would be a pretty good perpetual machine, depending on how you interpret it. it's constantly in motion, and doesn't create or destroy energy. and depending on how you thing things will got, it can be considered as having cycles (from big bang to big crunch), which i think would fit the bill of perpetual, or maybe it'll just fly farther and farther apart. i don't know if it will eventually stop or keep going, so i'm not sure if that would be perpetual or not.

Munsie · Post by **Munsie** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 6:20 pm

Incredibly good point. Technically everything, as a whole, is a perpetual motion system.

shadowkhas · Post by **shadowkhas** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 6:29 pm

ITT we make assumptions about the universe rather than going into a good scientific theory about it like M-theory branes.

If we take those, we have no idea what laws of physics govern them, so when they collide with each other (possibly causing the Big Bang, and possibly repeating that occurence), there's some energy loss on higher dimensions that we have no idea about.
Retroactive disclaimer: String-theory knowledge helps for the previous paragraph. Or at least, my fumbled knowledge from when I last looked into it in depth. Feel free to correct me.

Munsie · Post by **Munsie** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 6:35 pm

Are you trying to tell me we're losing energy in barriers and dimensions we don't even know about? (Atleast in the case of the big bang?)

That's scary.

Danke · Post by **Danke** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 6:42 pm

shadowkhas wrote:String-theory knowledge helps for the previous paragraph. Or at least, my fumbled knowledge from when I last looked into it in depth. Feel free to correct me.

Kirk · Post by **Kirk** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 6:50 pm

Seeing how we really have no real idea about how the universe was created, why it is doing anything it is doing, or what it's even for, I see no reason why the universe could be defined as a perpetual motion machine.

shadowkhas · Post by **shadowkhas** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 7:30 pm

Danke wrote:http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/string_theory.png

I am helpless to all XKCD.

I am defeated.

Veegie · Post by **Veegie** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 12:15 pm

Danke wrote:
shadowkhas wrote:String-theory knowledge helps for the previous paragraph. Or at least, my fumbled knowledge from when I last looked into it in depth. Feel free to correct me.
Code: Select all
[img]http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/string_theory.png[/img]

What's the point of posting that picture?
"Woo hoo go illogical humor!"

[cc]z@nd! · Post by **[cc]z@nd!** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 12:16 pm

shadowkhas wrote:ITT we make assumptions about the universe rather than going into a good scientific theory about it like M-theory branes.

i would, but i haven't read up on it in a while. sounds like a very promising topic, though.

newbymodder · Post by **newbymodder** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 1:40 pm

Kirk wrote:Seeing how we really have no real idea about how the universe was created, why it is doing anything it is doing, or what it's even for, I see no reason why the universe could be defined as a perpetual motion machine.

what do you mean we don't know what its for? we live on earth lol. we don't know why it was created or what its role is other than that its there but we do know what holds it together. as for the perpetual motion i was discussing this with my coach and um heat is a good perpetual motion. its caused when matter bounces off matter and that happens constantly and doesn't stop until absolute 0.