Unofficial Mega Science Debate Thread

[shadowkhas]

Rare material magnets are just more powerful...I don't think they have any other qualities, last I checked.
Also, what would the point of keeping the same system going, which is closed? The real goodness of trying to get potential energy is to make it GENERATE something, while never losing its original power.
Which, according to physics, is impossible, but still fun to think about.

[Locke]

I doubt anyone watches this program. But in Canada there is a program on TV called "The Red Green Show" (which is one of the best shows ever made.) In the show, Red created a working perpetual motion machine that actually works. You can do it with every day common household items.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=yJJrjDI5xSQ

[shadowkhas]

I doubt anyone watches this program. But in Canada there is a program on TV called "The Red Green Show" (which is one of the best shows ever made.) In the show, Red created a working perpetual motion machine that actually works. You can do it with every day common household items.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=yJJrjDI5xSQ

I LOVE that show. I'll have to watch that clip later, sleep now. (Saturdays on PBS for those interested. I think it's 10:00 here, MST...followed by Red Dwarf...!)

[Danke]

(Saturdays on PBS for those interested. I think it's 10:00 here, MST...followed by Red Dwarf...!)

If they still show The Prisoner, I will shat myself. Perpetually.

EDIT: Awwwwwwwwwwww. Also, PBS is different for each local station, essentially each city. Pretty crazy.

[Kirk]

I doubt anyone watches this program. But in Canada there is a program on TV called "The Red Green Show" (which is one of the best shows ever made.) In the show, Red created a working perpetual motion machine that actually works. You can do it with every day common household items.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=yJJrjDI5xSQ

I LOVE that show. I'll have to watch that clip later, sleep now. (Saturdays on PBS for those interested. I think it's 10:00 here, MST...followed by Red Dwarf...!)

I saw that episode on TV, haha. Great show.

And no, I don't believe perfect perpetual motion is possible.

[warlord]

As for the magnets, I was under the impression those earth magnets also lasted forever? That or I've been decieved by Wikipedia.

No.
Natural magnetic materials do not have a infinite supply of flux to maintain their magnetism they have half-lives much like radioactive materials.

[TomClancey]

I doubt anyone watches this program. But in Canada there is a program on TV called "The Red Green Show" (which is one of the best shows ever made.) In the show, Red created a working perpetual motion machine that actually works. You can do it with every day common household items.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=yJJrjDI5xSQ

I may not be in Canada, but I love that show too. Very funny.

[Munsie]

Alright, so eventually these magnets would lose their charge; This makes an endless motion impossible... If you had any kind of circuit with friction eventually whatever was being pushed together would just slowly flake away bit by bit. (I'm thinking like how they use a special metal alloy for the official Kilogram in... France (I think), it's too keep it from losing any of it's mass, even by a milligram.)

A circuit to generate energy would be like... Building a robot who could charge it's own batteries, and also build other robots who could do that same. Last I checked that's like a virus. Except a virus eats healthy cells' energy to live/spread.

[warlord]

what "could" work is a kind of friction free generator with a fly wheel all in a vacum sealed enclosure to reduce any friction on the fly wheel and see if inerta could keep the wheel moving it wouldnt convert the kinetic energy to electricty rather it would convert the generators shaft's potential energy into a electrical potential differnce.

[[cc]z@nd!]

wow, i watch red green too. i never knew it was this popular! the episode with the chainsaw races? awesome.

but back on topic, i don't think a perpetual motion machine is possible mainly because of ever-present friction. and as stated with the magnets, they will lose their strength before long. in fact, i would cite the best reason a perpetual motion machine could not work is the fact that nothing can last forever. if you put the thing out in the most remote region of space, over the next billions and billions of years, even if it's still running just fine, eventually some small piece of space dust, or anything larger, is going to slam into it at extremely high speeds, either damaging it and throwing off it's motions, or completely destroying it.

also, what's this about matter naturally decomposing? it sort of makes sense when taking other things into consideration, but i've never heard of it outside of radioactive materials.

[shadowkhas]

(I'm thinking like how they use a special metal alloy for the official Kilogram in... France (I think), it's too keep it from losing any of it's mass, even by a milligram.)

That may be possible, but it isn't a forever alloy that will never decay.

what "could" work is a kind of friction free generator with a fly wheel all in a vacum sealed enclosure to reduce any friction on the fly wheel and see if inerta could keep the wheel moving it wouldnt convert the kinetic energy to electricty rather it would convert the generators shaft's potential energy into a electrical potential differnce.

Yeah...but there is no such thing as a friction free generator.

[warlord]

the only place remotely friction free is in outer space to my knowledge.

[Munsie]

Even space has some amount of friction.

OK, obviously nothing can last FOREVER, that would be impossible. Let's say we want it to be perpetual motion for 100 years. Sort of defeats the purpose, but who doesn't like a slightly-more achieve-able goal?

[FleetAdmiralBacon]

OK, obviously nothing can last FOREVER, that would be impossible. Let's say we want it to be perpetual motion for 100 years. Sort of defeats the purpose, but who doesn't like a slightly-more achieve-able goal?

Sure. It's entirely possible to have a super-long-lasting energy "producing" device. We already do. It's called a solar panel. As long as the sun is still shining, the solar panel will still function. Nuclear reactions are pretty close to endless too, when controlled properly (hence the reason why science is searching for workable ways to use nuclear energy to produce movement in space)

Have a magnet in space. Spin it once, and it spins for eternity.

Put anything into true empty space (the kind of stuff you get between galaxies) and give it any bit of velocity and it will continue at that velocity for eternity. You can spin it or push it, doesn't matter, it'll keep going and going and going like the Energizer bunny. But have fun getting energy from it.

[shadowkhas]

[...] perpetual motion for 100 years.

Perpetual = goes on forever.
Perpetual for 100 years = xcuse me wtf r u doin

[newbymodder]

lol ya, so okay basically if you take in all factors its impossible. The only way is to have it someplace where there can be absolutely no interference and it would have to be exactly like outer space well except no friction, which as far as we know can't be achieved.

[Munsie]

shadowkhas, yes, I know that defeats the purpose, I had no other good way to word it at the time.

@Bacon; Sun goes out, now what? >_>

[FleetAdmiralBacon]

@Bacon; Sun goes out, now what? >_>

I didn't say "perpetual". Unless some massive catastrophe occurs in our solar system, the sun is going to keep on burning for billions of years, and we'll be long gone before then.
Even without friction, perpetual motion is impossible, as using any bit of energy from something spinning around in space would cause that spin to slow and slow and eventually stop.
There's also heat. Whenever energy is put into something, you'll never get that amount of energy back out because quite a hefty sum of it will be lost as heat.
It's like powering a lightbulb with a solar panel - the solar panel being powered by the lightbulb (aside from starting the chain), even if you were to get all of the light from the lightbulb to the solar panel, most of the energy from solar panel to light is lost as heat. Beyond that, you're still not doing anything in the end except creating heat, because the light from the bulb has to go back to the solar panel if you want even a fraction of the energy to stay in the chain.

Heat, friction, and the law of conservation of energy. All there is too it.

[Munsie]

Alright, I think you win. Heat disproves pretty much all of it.

[bibbit]

Heat, friction, and the law of conservation of energy. All there is too it.

Way to sum it up.

Oh, and Red Green and Red Dwarf FTW.