Current Event

[noxiousraccoon]

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent ... 228c6.html

I have noticed over the years that these cases have been popping up quite frequently. I was wondering what yall think of these issues? My idea behind this topic is to answer these few questions:

If this nation is going to have a pledge of allegiance, is it kind of lame, to have some of our citizens edit their allegiance because of their values and ethics?

If the word God (which in the dictionary it means: the one Supreme Being, the creator and ruler of the universe) is in our local, state, and federal governments, how is that not religious influence?

Considering we have only one form of currency in the United States(which is has the word god on it), how is that not religious influence as well?

Although religious influence is not pressure or forced action, does that still affect our allegiance to this country?

I would really like to hear yalls opinions. If you get mad at someone in this topic, this always helps me out when im mad. http://youtube.com/watch?v=H02iwWCrXew

[G.I.R.]

If the word God (which in the dictionary it means: the one Supreme Being, the creator and ruler of the universe) is in our local, state, and federal governments, how is that not religious influence?

Because not everyone believes the universe was created by a supreme being. That's why. Also, I lol'd at this part:

The lawsuit says a Rosemeade teacher told Mr. Croft's son that the minute of silence held each morning was specifically for prayer. She then bowed her head, clasped her hands and began to pray.

[shadowkhas]

I don't get all pissy about the Pledge because of that line. I stand up, to show respect for my country, but I don't utter a word of it.
I love getting funny looks from people.

[G.I.R.]

I don't get all pissy about the Pledge because of that line. I stand up, to show respect for my country, but I don't utter a word of it.
I love getting funny looks from people.

hay! O_O i do taht 2 lol

[gh0570fchurch]

Though I'm Christian (yes, a NIN fan that's a Christian, don't hurt yourself trying to think of it. I don't really follow the religion much, I've just grown up Christian), I don't really mind that line being in the Pledge of Alliegance, but I think that people should be given the choice of not saying the line (which they are, so I don't see what the big deal is).

[fullmental]

i dont stand up or say it, i cant wait to get away from here, but i am a christian

[Cuda]

I wholeheartedly disagree with Christianity, and get ridiculed for my standing on the issue, I don't openly speak out on it, it's just when people force it upon me, or bring up the issue of religion, I begin the breakdown.

I agree with his argument, but not the way he is going about it. Running around and snapping "pix 4 pruf" is a bit much, especially on an Elementary campus. The moment of prayer is ridiculous though. kids shouldn't have to pray for a minute in class, and for those that do not pray, it creates a sense of Alienation to the Student. If the students want to pray, let it be structured outside of the normal learning hours. There's a Christian meeting sponsored by teachers at my school Every Wednesday, where they pray and do other stuff, but it's held during lunch or after school, not during the class period.

[noxiousraccoon]

Because not everyone believes the universe was created by a supreme being. That's why.

That didnt answer the question.
Ill put it again. If the word God (which in the dictionary it means: the one Supreme Being, the creator and ruler of the universe) is in our local, state, and federal governments, how is that not religious influence?

The moment of prayer is ridiculous though

Agreed. Though, Texas clearly defined there minute of time as just a moment of silence. Students have the power to do whatever they want. I dont really know about other states/schools.

If the word God (which in the dictionary it means: the one Supreme Being, the creator and ruler of the universe) is in our local, state, and federal governments, how is that not religious influence?

Granted, everyone does have the power to leave the word out, but having a pledge that makes people have to edit their allegiance, isnt that fairly wrong?

[turk645]

meh i dont stand up for the pledge as much as possable. If i do its only because some of my teachers are anal about it and will give me a detention if i dont..... so much for freedom of expression. But frankly i dont have a problem with the word god in the pledge cause i dont really care. What does piss me off is that there is suposed to be a seperation of church and state but in court you have to sware to tell the truth on a bible.

[Kirk]

Nobody in any of my classes says the pledge, except the weird people (well, excluding the teachers, are they supposed to say it?). They have to stand up though.

[Leiukemia]

I somewhat agree with what you're saying. Coming from a christian point of view, I think having "in god we trust" and the prayer thing at that school is a bad choice. One of the things I've studied many times is that as a christian, is that it's not wise to be forcing it on people, or making it public to those who really just don't want to hear it. So I do agree, but from a differant angle of view.

Although, one thing that I do find sad is when these sort of feelings go to far to the other end. People think "Well they should just keep to themselves", but take it to far as to say the religeons should not be able to do things according to their ethics and beliefs. Suddenly, every single member of one religeon is plagued with these false accusations of "pushing their religeon" on everyone, when really it's one or a group of individuals who are extremists, making it look like all of that one faith are to blame. I can't blame people for doing this too bad, it's a human thing to do. Same thing happens with people of other races, jobs, countries etc. I'd say it's one of our downfalls that is hard to get around for people sometimes. Which is why I don't think editing the pledge of allegiance according to your beliefs or ethics should be looked down upon. I'm not from the states, but I know I hear dam well enough that it's the land of the free. So give them some freedom to choose their lifestyle. I know personally myself I would go so far to not even do the pledge (if I lived there) just because of my beliefs. And I can see how people might look down upon me, think now I'm just a useless member of the country. But there's no reason I wouldn't help out somebody in need at any time, that I wouldn't put my resources to use trying to help not only fellow countrymen, but anybody who is in need. By not pledging allegiance, I am in no way abandoning anyone. I would do just about anything a patriotic person would do in time of need or emergency (I say just about, because there are somethings I won't get into that would go against what I believe.

I apologize guys, I really do, for the people who take it to far. The ones who make you feel like your being pressured to believe their ways of life and religeon. I personally think it's not right, and try to tell my christian associates all the time about the dangers of forcing yourself not only onto people, but into publicity and decisions that should not concern them.

Edit: just thought of one more thing. Another thing that bothers me is when people think just about everything where christianity is mentioned, is forcing their religeon on them. I'm not saying you guys, the things stated in this topic so far have been well backed up. But I find it disturbing when someone mentions they are a christian, and gets the finger just because the person had a christian forcing themselves on them at some other time. There was a christian youth group club at the high school I just graduated from. I heard someone talking about how it should just be gotten rid of, that it was wrong to have. I then asked the person if any one member had ever tried to get them to go to a meeting. They said no. I asked if the knew anybody who went to it. They said no. I asked if they even knew what classroom it was held in. They said they didn't know. I found that most of the people I asked if they even knew the club existed, said they didn't know about it. And the ones who did, only heard of it because of an announcement here and there about the place of meeting. Which was about twice. They were well organized and didn't rely on taking school time to announce their meeting times and such, unlike the rest of the schools clubs and groups. But yet, I still heard from a few people how completely wrong it was to have. I'm sorry guys, I know it sounds harsh, but this is just rediculous. The simple matter is you're going to have to live with people with these beleives your whole life, and whether you like it or not you're going to hear about their existance from time to time. Get used to it, I know I've seen more pressure from people trying to get christians to leave their faith then I've ever seen a christian press their faith on someone. Anyways that's my thoughts/almost rant.

[noxiousraccoon]

I dont have a problem with saying the pledge or not, its up to you. The problem that most people are forgetting, athiests are not fighting because they believe they can/cannot say what they want. The Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Religion isnt the issue. The problem is the fact that we religious influence within our government. Im not blaming our senators, presidents, or past government officials. The argument is to not blame (well, for the non-crazy athiests ill add), but to compromise on an issue. There is difference between a problem and an issue in politics. Issues are possible problems that could happen/need to be looked over. Problems require action now, this is still an issue but could become a problem. I would still like to see a few more answers to my questions, or else this topic is really useless.

[Ombre]

The guy is a douche, it's as simple as that.

[shadowkhas]

If the word God (which in the dictionary it means: the one Supreme Being, the creator and ruler of the universe) is in our local, state, and federal governments, how is that not religious influence?
It is. :/

Considering we have only one form of currency in the United States(which is has the word god on it), how is that not religious influence as well?
Still religious, and I still feal uneasy about it. I frankly don't trust in God.

Although religious influence is not pressure or forced action, does that still affect our allegiance to this country?
Not to me. I like my country, I just don't like where its policies have been going for a while.

[Dan!!]

I like my country, I just don't like where its policies have been going for a while.

But it sure has some mighty fine land!

Seriously? People are stupid and the government can't do anything right. What is there to like? The flowers?

[noxiousraccoon]

Seriously? People are stupid and the government can't do anything right. What is there to like? The flowers?

Ok. Lets try to stay on topic. Dan, Im gonna take your post literally (if you are being serious). What is your solution to the athiest arguments?