knowledge of modding, don't hold it back

odie5533 · Post by **odie5533** » Sun Apr 04, 2004 1:45 pm

IMO, it is entirely the designers choice. We all should be more like mono, and try to find things for ourselves, but, most of us can't (like me) bc I would have no idea at all where to start to look, or how to confirm my findings, but still, it is their choice, not ours. We should be happy they have given us what they have, with HMT and SE and HHT, and all.

XwitX · Post by **XwitX** » Sun Apr 04, 2004 1:58 pm

Well this getting to be a very interesting conversation. But yeah maybe mono and them just shouldn't promise to give us stuff way ahead of time. instead of saying "it will be out tomorrow" he should say "sorry guys its not comin out for 3 weeks" that puts alot less stress on everyone.

Zilazapper2 · Post by **Zilazapper2** » Sun Apr 04, 2004 2:15 pm

New and improved point: Don't tell us about your new mod way before it is finished and get our hopes up, please just tell us about it when you have an exact release date "it puts less stress on the community" as stated in an above post, also if your gonna tell us early atleast keep us updated, and last of all, I don't know how I can get it across but, Don't Tell The Community About A Mod If Your Going To Never Release It Or Keep It For Yourself, Period. Thankyou,
-Zilazapper

Iron_Forge · Post by **Iron_Forge** » Sun Apr 04, 2004 2:18 pm

Which is probably why Mono stopped posting...He kept pushing dates back because no one knows when things are going to be finished...And people were becomming bitter over this...By simply not posting, no promises are made, or broken...Keeping in mind, this isn't our job...We do have lives, and bills to pay...

You also need to realize, most of us have over half a year invested in our knowledge...Stop and try to fully visualize that...Dedicate your life and free time from now until Christmas towards Halo...Imagine what you could accomplish...I find most people are bitter over this "why won't you just tell us everything" haven't really tried much of anything...Sure they may have spent time, but for the most part, just went "why is this so hard, I hate Monoxide for not sharing"...

What do you think we do when we can't figure something out?..We have no scapegoat to go to...Our options are to give up, or forge on...Or we could take the current stance everyone has against Monoxide and his "group" (also known as friends), and start blaming Bungie for not just telling us how map files work...Yeah, damn them for not sharing!..Those bastards...

If you want to play Halo, and cool mods...Then do so...If you want to be the next greatest modder to release an uber level, you best get started...It's long, hard, frustraiting, and not to mention thankless work that, guess what, is for you, because you want to...You think Mono releases mods because he loves you all like sunshine and rainbows?..Or because he wants to mod as a hobby that he enjoys...In the end, if your not modding to make yourself happy, you lose your sanity...

So guess what, take a step back, look in the mirror, and realize something...Your mommy lied, you don't matter to anyone...It's no ones job to amuse you except your own...If your bitter or angry at this whole scene, then why be here?..Go play jump rope with some friends, and be happy...Don't you want to be happy?..

MonoxideC · Post by **MonoxideC** » Sun Apr 04, 2004 2:21 pm

Almost everyone that's posted so far has valid points, so here's my 2 cents...

First off, look at it from my point of view. I spend x number of hours testing some new thing. X is usually a LOT of hours... After all my hard work and stress trying to make shit work (which is a pain in the ass as most of you know) I have two options. I can (a) release the info so that someone can snatch it up, make a mod with it, and even if they CREDIT me, become known as the person who did it, or (b) hold onto it and make my own mod, then release the info afterwards.

Look at all of the "perfect model injection" pics/vids that have been posted. In those threads, all you hear is "HOLY SHIT [insert topic poster's name here] THAT'S AWESOME TELL US HOW YOU DID THAT" and no matter how much is said, no one even pays attention to the "Created with Monos's fucking hard work that he gave to me" captions.

See.. I'm not gonna spend time and effort researching coding and debugging so that someone else can use it in a mod and slap their name on it before I get a chance to release mine. But I wanna clarify though - it's not about me getting credit. Personally, I don't care if I get credit for anything. But no way in hell is someone ELSE gonna get credit for something I did.

Plus, you have to admit. If someone releases a mod just like yours - even if it is inferior by far - the impact your mod will have on the community when it comes out will not be nearly as great.

All that said, I want to apologize as well. A lot of this is my fault for sure - I posted info about this stuff a looong time ago and have yet to deliver. I'm sorry for that - it's taken a lot more time than I thought it would.. but I'm not holding out. I just want to finish my mod before I release the tools and tutorials.

I have the best of intentions and want to have fun with this stuff and I want all of you guys to have fun with it too. I understand how you feel, but at the same time you have to understand where I'm coming from too.

I will share my info with all of you, but only after I finish my mod.

Templar · Post by **Templar** » Sun Apr 04, 2004 2:29 pm

Just take your time. And as for what you said, I agree with you 100%. I've seen people (like the rest of you have) of them saying stuff that they've done and wouldn't be able to do without the work of good ole mono. Like many have said, if not for mono and a few others; we'd still be in the dark ages. Now I'm off to figure out how to dump this model in Halo PC (trying to get all the vertices/indices precisly the same)

Zilazapper2 · Post by **Zilazapper2** » Sun Apr 04, 2004 2:34 pm

In reply to forge, I somewhat agree with you, but it isn't exactly how you state it...

If everyone made their own mods it wouldn't be a modding community now would it? For example: everyone here lives in a community, do you grow, harvest, and prepare your food? or do you just buy it at your local store and prepare it? and did you build you pc from scrap?, I mean real scrap... like natural things, if so then way to go Mr. Gates. Did you create halo? no.

Okay, there, if everyone doesn't work together and has to make stuff for themselves, it is not a community.

heres one of the definitions for community
Dictionary.com: Community- Sharing , participation, and fellowship

Dark Cloud · Post by **Dark Cloud** » Sun Apr 04, 2004 2:35 pm

Erm... I disagree with a lot of you. If people want to withhold the info on how to do this, then FINE! So what? It gives you something to look forward to and anticipate longer. And Mono just doesn't want things released that he's working on and discovered how to do before he releases his version of that. I don't blame him. Kudos to Mono, and shame on all you greedy people...

MonoxideC · Post by **MonoxideC** » Sun Apr 04, 2004 2:36 pm

Good point, but if someone in your community does grow their own food, live off the grid, and build everything they have from scrap, do you have a right to be angry with them because you still have to buy things from the grocery store?

Iron_Forge · Post by **Iron_Forge** » Sun Apr 04, 2004 2:44 pm

Last I checked, it is a halo community...You failed to highlight the other two points in the community definition...And I ask, of all the people flaming Monoxide and the other "advanced modders" (of which I don't consider myself a part of), share or participate in the gathering of such knowledge?..How many of them show the respect of ages of hard work creating a fellowship of friends?..

Perhaps the community is built of peers, my peers just happen to be Monoxide, ZexGX, among others...Peers of yesterday include the good friendship I had with dmauro...You think these people are my friends because we can help each other with halo, or do you think that is simply a side-effect of being friends...

If you were a dedicated, intelligent individual, you would probably have no issues with the current state of the community, aside from those who seek to destroy it...

As you pointed out, everyone in a community must participate to be a member of that community...Those who grow the food, rely on those who process it into marketable goods, and those who recieve those goods need to participate, and be a useful addition to the community, they are not just given the food...Communities are founded on communism, everyone sharing...

Tell me, whats the last thing you did for the community?..Why should it be on our hands to share with you first, so that you can contribute...We've been life long members of this community, building the very foundations upon which it stands...Our hard work and contributions have been seen in the past, and are unquestionable...Are yours?..

Templar · Post by **Templar** » Sun Apr 04, 2004 2:45 pm

So your saying..Be mad at hillbillies? Wtf man, I'm a hillbilly...Don't hate us just because we're different!

Lol (c'mon just trying to lift everyones spirits)

Zilazapper2 · Post by **Zilazapper2** » Sun Apr 04, 2004 2:46 pm

MonoxideC wrote:Good point, but if someone in your community does grow their own food, live off the grid, and build everything they have from scrap, do you have a right to be angry with them because you still have to buy things from the grocery store?

you do have a good point, but do people that grow their own food come up to you and say "look what I grew, you can't have it though". Oh and in your other post before that, I agree, and that said, I will always put your name and other peoples like gren in the credits of my mods in bold. Your appoligy is accepted about telling us about the mods soon, I am glad you and Forge even cared about my speech that means alot to me and that you do really care.
-Zilazapper

P.S.- Mono, since your here, can you tell me how AOTCR is going? I am tired of rumors from others. Thankyou

MonoxideC · Post by **MonoxideC** » Sun Apr 04, 2004 2:50 pm

Zilazapper2 wrote:P.S.- Mono, since your here, can you tell me how AOTCR is going? I am tired of rumors from others. Thankyou

It seems to be finished. I'm starting the beta tonight, in an hour or so most likely. If all goes well, the mod should be out tomorrow.. but if there are any more bugs found, those will have to be fixed first, then another beta will have to take place.

Zilazapper2 · Post by **Zilazapper2** » Sun Apr 04, 2004 2:58 pm

MonoxideC wrote:
Zilazapper2 wrote:P.S.- Mono, since your here, can you tell me how AOTCR is going? I am tired of rumors from others. Thankyou
It seems to be finished. I'm starting the beta tonight, in an hour or so most likely. If all goes well, the mod should be out tomorrow.. but if there are any more bugs found, those will have to be fixed first, then another beta will have to take place.

Thankyou so much for the update, this is what I mean, just keep us updated atleast once a week, its great to hear that it might be out tommorro, if the creators of halo saw the programs that you and others have made they would probably pass out, things like HMT are keeping halo alive, if it wasn't for your programs halo would be dead by the time the HEK was released

Dark Cloud · Post by **Dark Cloud** » Sun Apr 04, 2004 2:59 pm

Becase tomorrow is just a day, or two, or five, away....

j/k... Hopefully it goes as planned Mono. And with that, will we get HMT 3.5?

Man... gotta do at least 1 perfect model injection without 3.5 before then! lol...

Templar · Post by **Templar** » Sun Apr 04, 2004 3:02 pm

MonoxideC wrote:
Zilazapper2 wrote:P.S.- Mono, since your here, can you tell me how AOTCR is going? I am tired of rumors from others. Thankyou
It seems to be finished. I'm starting the beta tonight, in an hour or so most likely. If all goes well, the mod should be out tomorrow.. but if there are any more bugs found, those will have to be fixed first, then another beta will have to take place.

I love you mono.

Mikey_Man · Post by **Mikey_Man** » Sun Apr 04, 2004 3:03 pm

I dont really mind waiting for 3.5 even if its a month from now,but since it maybe out tomorrow,or the day after AOTCR's release then its kinda late to say that

Templar · Post by **Templar** » Sun Apr 04, 2004 3:09 pm

I'm glad I'm on Spring Break, I got time to mess around with the new HMT if it comes out tomorrow...

Zilazapper2 · Post by **Zilazapper2** » Sun Apr 04, 2004 4:34 pm

ICEFIRE wrote:Lol glad to help! Lol I would release a tut for converting level's but the mods tell us not to.

That, is what I am talking about, people not letting people freaking release things they want to, makes me so mad, the mods won't even let us, it is like we are trying to hold back ourselves

HaloJunkEE · Post by **HaloJunkEE** » Sun Apr 04, 2004 5:03 pm

I would like to say here and now that every time I post a mod I will give credit to whoevers tools I used...mono...most of the people here don't show it...but deep down inside we all love ya....in a non homo sexual kinda way......so whenever I post a mod...credit goes to you, Gren and CLuis for HMT, SparkEdit, and HHT....thank you so much....and on the topic....I think maybe they should give us little tiny hints...so that we can at least try and figure it out ourselves...

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knowledge of modding, don't hold it back

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