Community Project: PHMO Tag

Talin64 · Post by **Talin64** » Thu May 18, 2006 8:12 pm

Here is that mod I was talking about earlier, it is a bit glitchy.
If you want to try the jumbo glitchy pallete mod with full collision follow these instructions.
1. load the moded Zazibar map
2. load up slayer with rockets
3. go to the beach shoot the pallete in the air in the center with the rocket.
4. Enjoy
Talin

shade45 · Post by **shade45** » Thu May 18, 2006 8:21 pm

cool will try

Snaku · Post by **Snaku** » Fri May 19, 2006 5:17 am

I think I now have a basic understanding (very very basic) of what a transformation matrix is, but I'm not clear on why it's in the phmo. What is it needed for? To move vertices? Which vertices are being moved? Where are they going? Why? Yeah, the "where are they going?" is a silly way of wording it, but what I'm getting at is that, in most cases phmo seems to be a solid piece (unless you're talking about a biped or something) and I'm really not getting what vertices need to be moved in phmo.
Are these transformations matrices in the spot that Xzodia had labelled collision planes? If so, why does the ghost have so many as opposed to the warthog? The shadow has like 20-30-something (can't remember the exact count and don't feel like checking again.

n64nerd · Post by **n64nerd** » Fri May 19, 2006 5:55 am

I think I have it a little better than you. transformation matrices are (I think) to move a vertice, once. It's to position the vertex with calculations more complex than just coordinates. Notice how nowhere else is there a way to scale or mirror a vertex, much less at the same time with the same variables.

Also, a four-by-four matrix has sixteen values, so collision planes are not transformation matrices.

shade45 · Post by **shade45** » Fri May 19, 2006 6:37 am

Ive been looking at it some more and im pretty sure that struct is not a transitional matrix and i dont think it controls the verticies becouse some phmo tags will have verticies and not have that one reflex.

xzodia · Post by **xzodia** » Fri May 19, 2006 6:40 am

i had a go at editing the banshee verts, i made all the z values 0 and the gane froze

n64nerd · Post by **n64nerd** » Fri May 19, 2006 9:22 am

Is there any pattern between objects that don't have that reflexive? Like, all turrets, all inanimate objects, etc?

I want to check and see if there is any difference between the phmo of the shadow/covenant turret and a human turret. Hopefully we can modify the geight at which it rises, or maybe when it rises, so you could start to get out and it would launch you up to another platform.

Snaku · Post by **Snaku** » Fri May 19, 2006 10:50 am

Wasn't that already done through moving the seat marker?
Also, I've only done a preliminary look, but all the vehicles I checked had that reflex and none of the machs I checked did.

Shalted · Post by **Shalted** » Fri May 19, 2006 11:04 am

I agree with Talin64, I don't think PHMOs have vertices, because some models don't have the vertex chunk, and it would be inefficeint to use vertices, when you could use something less detailed Ex: bounding boxes.

Talin64 · Post by **Talin64** » Fri May 19, 2006 2:59 pm

I wonder if it is possible
the vertices are like path findings spheres from halo 1
x,y,z,radius

TheTyckoMan · Post by **TheTyckoMan** » Fri May 19, 2006 3:33 pm

Talin64 wrote:I wonder if it is possible
the vertices are like path findings spheres from halo 1
x,y,z,radius

I remember that app with the red spheres...AH the good old days

Snaku · Post by **Snaku** » Fri May 19, 2006 7:28 pm

I have suggested, in some of our tlm discussions, that very concept, Talin. Xzodia then compared it to being built "with balls of plasticine and straws."
My only evidence for this theory was the way the pelican seems to have a spherical collision with the bsp (the way it rolls around on the ground). If that is the case, however, it would still seem that there'd need to be vertices to keep the biped and machs (the pelican rests nicely on mach platforms) from passing through it. When walking on the pelican (or anything else for that matter) I do not get the impression of walking on spherical shapes.
In essence, it seems there are three types of collision, not two: bullet, walking (biped/mach), and environment (bsp), with the bsp collision being the simplest.

Shalted · Post by **Shalted** » Fri May 19, 2006 10:07 pm

BSP Nodes perhaps? But it it were, vehicles would have to have them, and do vehicles have them?

kornman00 · Post by **kornman00** » Fri May 19, 2006 10:34 pm

The definition in that XML file you have is missing 2 tag blocks (you have them marked as "unused").

There are also 12 Havok objects used in the physics model tag. Thats all I give out.

Iron_Forge · Post by **Iron_Forge** » Sat May 20, 2006 6:14 am

That would be my fault korn...When generating the IFP's, if a tag reference was basically unused in every tag in Halo 2, I'd mark it as unused, rather than unknown...They inherited that when they used my plugins for a base for theirs...

xzodia · Post by **xzodia** » Sat May 20, 2006 7:31 am

Talin64 wrote:I wonder if it is possible
the vertices are like path findings spheres from halo 1
x,y,z,radius

as snaku said we already discussed this, in fact the reflexive shade named vertices i had origionally named the values x,y,z and radius

kornman00 · Post by **kornman00** » Sat May 20, 2006 11:15 am

Iron_Forge wrote:That would be my fault korn...When generating the IFP's, if a tag reference was basically unused in every tag in Halo 2, I'd mark it as unused, rather than unknown...They inherited that when they used my plugins for a base for theirs...

Well it makes for the most logical sense to decalre it unused, wouldn't want to confuse the poor souls that browse these forums...

And its a tag block ;x. So I guess none of the current tag definitions use those 2 blocks if your plugin generator didn't find them.

Talin64 · Post by **Talin64** » Mon May 22, 2006 6:54 am

Snaku · Post by **Snaku** » Mon May 22, 2006 7:02 am

Is there a way yet for us average laymen to get an extract similar to that? I can't tell if that's the view in a program or if you photoshopped a screenshot to show what you had discovered. Either way it's a breakthrough.
Is there a way to edit them, then? To add more, particularly to the pelican?
Also, I'm assuming these spheres relate only to the bsp collision. Is that correct?
[edit] Also, just curious. How come you're not working with the guys over at the tag research project? They've got some awesome stuff going on, and they're trying to keep the plugins in IFP2 format. At least the unfinished ones.

Talin64 · Post by **Talin64** » Mon May 22, 2006 7:30 am

Snaku,
That pic is from a talk about halo 2 AI
The Spheres are not used for collision.
They are used for AI ray casting for visibility.
It seems that the "phmo" tag has a lot of the same tag blocks from halo 1 tags ie Mode tag and others.
If somebody could extract the spheres into a 3d modeler we could compare and see if they are pathfinding spheres.
Talin