Immigration to the U.S.

[Cuda]

Within the Last couple of days, There have been mass protests and walk-outs In California Supporting Illegal Immigration.

I would like to have a small peaceful Political Debate on this subject to see what Halomods member believe is correct. Non-American Members, please feel free to post your opinion on this matter. Please DO NOT TURN THIS INTO A FLAME WAR and DO NOT TURN THIS INTO DOWNRIGHT BUSH BASHING.

At our School today, and in Downtown LA, there have been mass protests supporting Amnesty for Illegal Immigrants. Millions around Southern California alone have supprted this. The protesters are prostesting a Bill in Washington that makes being an illegal immigrant a felony.

Even at my school, there were about 40-50 supporters of this movement, some of which went to Downtown Los Angeles and Downtown Long Beach to City Hall to Demonstrate.

These Stories in my local News.

The Los Angeles Times



What is your opinion?
I would like to keep this a social, non-Hostile thread. Please make all replies educated and relavant. No Racist remarks are neccesarry.

[nifebender]

i think the point is they are here illegally. why should they be alloud to stay and work here. should i be alloud torob someone ro something like that and be aloud to do it?? NO. so why should they be aloud to do something illegal in our country?

[VoYdE]

Illegal = Maybe

But Isnt Our Contry Based On Immigration?

[The_Hushed_Casket]

I think immigration is fine for two reasons. First off, a whole lot of the economy local to my area (I live in a MAJOR wine producing area) is based on the work of migrant farmers. Without them, the local economy would cease to function. Second of all, if they are immigrating here, it is because there is little or no opportunity where they grew up. I know life isn't fair, but what, are we just supposed to say "Too bad, so sad. You are born there, you stay there." I don't think it is fair that some people are born into these conditions and are legally bound to stay in them.

But Isnt Our Contry Based On Immigration?

On that note:

[Warbandit mk 3]

[ The illeagal immigrants don't have the right to live in the United States of America in the first place. If they are not leagal U.S. citizens, they should get out. I'm one of the strongest conservatives, so I don't want liberals to flame me (no offense, don't ban me).

[Patrickssj6]

Basically they are forced to life illeagly in USA.I mean most illegal immigrents come from Mexico over the border(quite easiy cause its a desert >_>|).Many people live their life in horrible conditions and are basically forced to go over the border to ensure a better life to their children and family.

The only reason they have to live under miserable conditions are because our life is good.Its impossible to avoid poverty in the world except the whole world would turn communism.The Goverment in Mexico have mistreated the people a long time(like investing the money in wrong things).They have a right to achieve a better life.

I think the USA should invest the money in something more sensefull instead pof in Football-Stadiums and Iraq war.USA always speaks off that they are the most powerfull country(matter of fact they are) why don't they use their power to help the people and make life easier for them in their country so they don't have to illeagly enter the USA.As a matter of fact the USA allready "abuses" Mexico by buying goods for a VERY small amount of money.

[Warbandit mk 3]

No offense, but you're not changing my mind. They could at least move here leagally (I know how much it costs!), instead of ruining our country's economy. If they continue, they will destroy our enconomy like John Kerry or other communist politicians want to, no offense if you are a liberal I just want the U.S.A to remain capitalist.

[RaVNzCRoFT]

I'm not really so opposed to illegal immigration as much as I think it's very unfair. I think there's always going to be illegal immigration, and we can't do much to stop it. However, I think it's very unfair for all the people spending time and money to legally become United States citizens.

[Patrickssj6]

I'm not really so opposed to illegal immigration as much as I think it's very unfair. I think there's always going to be illegal immigration, and we can't do much to stop it. However, I think it's very unfair for all the people spending time and money to legally become United States citizens.

Imagine people who want to do everything legal but can't?

[The_Hushed_Casket]

No offense, but you're not changing my mind. They could at least move here leagally (I know how much it costs!), instead of ruining our country's economy.

First of all, if you know how much it costs, then you would know that it is (literally) impossible for most (all) immigrants to move here legally. Not to mention how much time and money it would take to fill out the paperwork involved in such a situtation. Second of all, destroy our economy? Last time I checked, they were fueling it.

If they continue, they will destroy our enconomy like John Kerry or other communist politicians want to, no offense if you are a liberal I just want the U.S.A to remain capitalist.

What crazy right-wing talking head told you tools that John Kerry was a communist? Regardless of my views on communism and capitalism (which I will not state as they have nothing to do with this topic) there is no reason to accuse random politicians of being a member of whatever party you don't like just so you can cram your views down our throats. Not to mention, don't bother saying 'no offence,' it's not working.

[RaVNzCRoFT]

I agree completely. I don't think anyone has a right to call Kerry a communist, especially since Bush isn't the next George Washington either.

And saying "no offense" doesn't stop a joke from hurting. Would you go up to someone, say the most racist comment you can think of, and say "just kidding" after it? I hope not.

[Warbandit mk 3]

I agree completely. I don't think anyone has a right to call Kerry a communist, especially since Bush isn't the next George Washington either.



And saying "no offense" doesn't stop a joke from hurting. Would you go up to someone, say the most racist comment you can think of, and say "just kidding" after it? I hope not.

WTF?! You don't believe in free speech? Who said I think George Bush is that? There are some Republicans I like and don't like you know.
It's no joke and everyone, even Kerry has the right to believe in what they want. The Illeagal immigrants are sucking up recources reserved for us and leagal immigrants, so look up the facts on a ecenomic website please. I had no intention of flaming. The political parties I do not like have done damage to some of my beliefs. There are corrupt people in every party. Do not get angry, this is a normal in politics.

[Cuda]

Ok, I see where you guys are comming from. There is a loophole in this situation though. But what about other countries' Immigration Policies?

Pole Need work permits to go to germany durring Harvest time, but have to return when the Harvest is over.
Mexico's immigration policy is that If an American Citizen were to live in Mexico, The American is NOT allowed to Own property in Mexico, Own a Buisness in Mexico, and has to pay a Annual Fee to Live in Mexico. An American can Lease property, but the Land owner can kick him off when ever the Land Owner wants.

For example, (this is a true Story btw.) A group of Huntington Beach Firefiighters Decided to make a beach house in Mexico. They Get the Property, The Materials, and Build it. They live in it for a couple months, and The Landowner Kicks them off the property for no Apparent reason. They go to the Courts and the Court Favors on the Side of the Landowner. The Firefighters are forced to leave the property, and get no compensation.

Point I'm trying to make is, why not make them Pay to live here, (charge an annual fee) like they do when Americans wish to live in Mexico?

I myself am for this bill, but for Amnesty. There is a loophole for this bill.

If there is an illegal immigrant that has lived in the United States, with a Clean Criminal Record, Never Registered to vote and has lived in this country for a number of years, the Immigrant can apply for a proper visa. And become a Documented Immigrant and live LEGALLY in the united states.

EDIT:

But Isnt Our Contry Based On Immigration?

On that note:

This country is, but why have a South American Indian? If I remember correctly, and Besides, if you do want to use Pilgrims, They landed a few thousand Miles north, and a couple Hundred years after the Last strong South American Indians(Aztec, Inca, Maya, Olmec,etc.) were living. A lot of the Immigrants that came to this country were looking for a new life, but they weren't breaking any laws set by the local land.

Case in Point, A large majority of immigrants in the 1700's to late 18 and 1900's came legally and came through processing At Ellis Island.

[The_Hushed_Casket]

WTF?! You don't believe in free speech

He didn't mean that you don't have the legal right to say that, he meant that it's not cool for you to just lie through your teeth like that.

It's no joke and everyone, even Kerry has the right to believe in what they want.

Give it up, Kerry is not a communist.

The Illeagal immigrants are sucking up recources reserved for us and leagal immigrants, so look up the facts on a ecenomic website please.

Could you post such an economics website or do you have no basis for that statement whatsoever? Migrant farmers are creating resources, not taking them. Even living here they live in relative poverty. And if you are implying that they are taking jobs. The only jobs that they are taking are unskilled labor jobs that few citizens even want. And even if a US citizen or 'legal immigrant' wanted one of these jobs, if they won't work as hard for less money, whose fault is that?

[gmp_gmp]

I personally think that we should take a hint from israel and build a lolhueg concrete wall. That should keep em out and solve the problem. It also slows down a potential invasion by mexico

[Warbandit mk 3]

Ok, I see where you guys are comming from. There is a loophole in this situation though. But what about other countries' Immigration Policies?

Pole Need work permits to go to germany durring Harvest time, but have to return when the Harvest is over.
Mexico's immigration policy is that If an American Citizen were to live in Mexico, The American is NOT allowed to Own property in Mexico, Own a Buisness in Mexico, and has to pay a Annual Fee to Live in Mexico. An American can Lease property, but the Land owner can kick him off when ever the Land Owner wants.

For example, (this is a true Story btw.) A group of Huntington Beach Firefiighters Decided to make a beach house in Mexico. They Get the Property, The Materials, and Build it. They live in it for a couple months, and The Landowner Kicks them off the property for no Apparent reason. They go to the Courts and the Court Favors on the Side of the Landowner. The Firefighters are forced to leave the property, and get no compensation.

Point I'm trying to make is, why not make them Pay to live here, (charge an annual fee) like they do when Americans wish to live in Mexico?

I myself am for this bill, but for Amnesty. There is a loophole for this bill.

If there is an illegal immigrant that has lived in the United States, with a Clean Criminal Record, Never Registered to vote and has lived in this country for a number of years, the Immigrant can apply for a proper visa. And become a Documented Immigrant and live LEGALLY in the united states.

That's even better than kicking them out, but the making them leagal part I disagree with. If they come here illeagally, make them pay a high price for it. They raise taxes, so why not tax them? (I'm not racist.)

Hushed Casket, I don't need to post links, there plenty of websites to look for. Why not try www.google.com ? You know, to search for those websites?

[The_Hushed_Casket]

I personally think that we should take a hint from israel and build a lolhueg concrete wall. That should keep em out and solve the problem. It also slows down a potential invasion by mexico

Hell it worked in Berlin.

but the making them leagal part I disagree with.

What so you want to live in some barred country where no one can come in or out? You don't believe that people should ever be able to become legal immigrants?

If they come here illeagally, make them pay a high price for it.

That is a price they cannot pay. They simply cannot afford it.

(I'm not racist.)

By repeatedly saying that, you are incriminating yourself.

Hushed Casket, I don't need to post links, there plenty of websites to look for. Why not try www.google.com ? You know, to search for those websites?

You can't post any links. Why am I not suprised?

[xXxCocoFangxXx]

But with the more illegal immigration, the less jobs that the American's get. Also lots of the immigrants steal people ID's and stuff like that.

[rossmum]

Illegal immigration is a big problem here in Australia too... we just lock them up and either send them back or allow them to become citizens and stay, depending on whether they have a genuine reason for coming here. The US could try the same.

[jks]

I think immigration is fine for two reasons. First off, a whole lot of the economy local to my area (I live in a MAJOR wine producing area) is based on the work of migrant farmers. Without them, the local economy would cease to function. Second of all, if they are immigrating here, it is because there is little or no opportunity where they grew up. I know life isn't fair, but what, are we just supposed to say "Too bad, so sad. You are born there, you stay there." I don't think it is fair that some people are born into these conditions and are legally bound to stay in them.

But Isnt Our Contry Based On Immigration?

On that note:

I agree with you 100% if they want to come here, so be it. But there has to be a point at which we say enough is enough. I think in order to fix this "problem" we have to deal with it at its source, by cutting war expenses, raising taxes, and giving aid to other countries that really need it around us.