Iraq Topic

[Trulife8342]

I think its dumb that Bush is using our army troops in Iraq not as soldiers but at the moment police officers, They should bring them back, And its not all Bush's fault, He trusted Donald R. and Donald made the fucked up mistake to head over to Iraq, And when Colin Powell told Bush it wasn't a good idea Bush didn't care, Powell tried to stick with the administration but after what was going on he decided to leave, Its pretty sad when people your supposed to depend on are either resigning or simply saying your wrong.

[Ombre]

Bush can't start wars alone, so quit blaming him for it just because everyone else does. (This is a general statement, not directed to any one person alone.)

[Danke]

When I say Bush, I usually mean him and his whole administration. But yes, honestly, the general population who supported it are to blame as well for the initial invasion. After that, it's more the administration's fault (although, not to say they aren't victims of circumstance as well).

[shadowkhas]

And its not all Bush's fault, He trusted Donald R. and Donald made the *** up mistake to head over to Iraq

If I'd go by your logic, I would dislike Bush even more, for blindly going after what his advisers tell him instead of sitting down and listening to what other people (who aren't part of the PNAC) have to say about it.

[Trulife8342]

Well, you have to understand, Its his job to listen to his advisers, Now im not for Bush, I hate him and his whole administration, But its not all his fault.

[shadowkhas]

Well, you have to understand, Its his job to listen to his advisers, Now im not for Bush, I hate him and his whole administration, But its not all his fault.

I think his advisers should do just that...advise him of the situation, and make their recommendation based on how the country feels about the situation, and what the world in general (in this case, UN inspectors) thinks.

[Trulife8342]

Unfortunately, Thats not how our government thinks, They think that they know whats best for us. If you have a problem well all I can say is wait a few more months.

[shadowkhas]

Unfortunately, Thats not how our government thinks, They think that they know whats best for us.

That's my point.

[SHOUTrvb]

Unfortunately, Thats not how our government thinks, They think that they know whats best for us.

Don't forget that we're the ones who elected most of these people.

[noxiousraccoon]

More american soldiers have died in Iraq than people in the world trade center attacks.

This is by far the most insulting statement I have ever heard. Do not, under any circumstances justify the names of those who have died in order to prove your point. Im not telling what you can or cannot say but be aware of what you are saying.

I dont know where most of you get your information from but this war was going to happen whether 9/11 happened or not. Iraq was already on the track of declaring war on Israel. Do any of you remember when Saddam sent scud missiles into Israel during our first war with them? Saddam violated the U.N. on multiple occasions. He has killed many of his own people, have many of you not seen the videos of the mass graves uncovered? Not to mention, do any of you know the former President Bill Clinton bombed Iraq after they did not comply with UN demands? This war was inevitable.
This war was not started for oil or WMDs. If so, the war would have been called, "Operation Oil Freedom". WMDs was merely the more public exploited reason for going to war. The UN inspectors, President Bush speeches, and 24/7 press coverage was merely just war propaganda. Oil is obviously obsured because our government does not have the power or the resources to steal millions and millions of gallons of oil. The argument that the war has increased terrorism does have some truth. Though, the 'terrorism' that is occuring in Iraq is not terrorism. Its the clash between gangs, American and Iraqi soldiers, and a small force of Al Qaida. Thats all I have for now, I will pick this up later if I have time.

[Tural]

Did something need to be done? Yes. Did we do it in a proper way? No.

[Prey]

Did something need to be done? Yes. Did we do it in a proper way? No.

Originally it was, but then reports started coming in like 'Americans shoot down English fighter jet by mistake' and more recently, 'Weapons sent over to help allies go missing'. It's just all gone to hell now

[Tural]

We went in without a solid plan and without a solid exit strategy. It was not a proper way to enter into a major conflict.

[Danke]

More american soldiers have died in Iraq than people in the world trade center attacks.

This is by far the most insulting statement I have ever heard. Do not, under any circumstances justify the names of those who have died in order to prove your point. Im not telling what you can or cannot say but be aware of what you are saying.

It doesn't make sense anyway.

I dont know where most of you get your information from but this war was going to happen whether 9/11 happened or not. Iraq was already on the track of declaring war on Israel. Do any of you remember when Saddam sent scud missiles into Israel during our first war with them?

How old do you think we are? Seriously? Most of us were toddlers when it happened, some not even born.

Saddam violated the U.N. on multiple occasions. He has killed many of his own people, have many of you not seen the videos of the mass graves uncovered? Not to mention, do any of you know the former President Bill Clinton bombed Iraq after they did not comply with UN demands? This war was inevitable.

Bullllllllllpoop. Just because there were reasons doesn't mean the war was inevitable. We went to war over WMD's. It's not as though a few months later someone would go "OH GUYS! Remember all this stuff that happened in 1991? Let's go to war now!"

This war was not started for oil or WMDs. If so, the war would have been called, "Operation Oil Freedom". WMDs was merely the more public exploited reason for going to war.

If the public didn't have any reason to support the war, it wouldn't have happened. I'd like to think we have at least a small influence on Congress and that they'd piss their pants thinking about their next election that they wouldn't pay for it. And for crying out loud, nobody cares about the Kurds. I'd hate to say it, but we wouldn't go to war with Iraq over people bagillions of miles away who died more than a decade ago. And if he had gone to war with Israel, we probably would back Israel up, but he didn't and I can't imagine that he would without at least support from other neighboring countries, because he would get his ass kicked and he knew it.

The UN inspectors, President Bush speeches, and 24/7 press coverage was merely just war propaganda.

I don't see how UN inspectors who don't find anything would aid the cause for war.

Oil is obviously obsured because our government does not have the power or the resources to steal millions and millions of gallons of oil.

It's not stealing, per se. But Halliburton and others have plenty of say in their affairs (and in numerous other countries). Oil companies even hire "contractors," basically soldiers who have finished their tour in Iraq, to go back and protect their interests. We aren't just plain stealing it, but I don't think Iraq is making much of a profit off the oil.

The argument that the war has increased terrorism does have some truth. Though, the 'terrorism' that is occuring in Iraq is not terrorism.

It's all terrorism, it's just not the terrorism we expect. Sunnis blowing up Shiites and vice versa is still terrorism to me. It's not terrorism that I think we necessarily have an obligation to quash, simply because that would be difficult as hell, but it's still one group trying to incite fear in another in order to GTFO Iraq. That and it's not all 100% sectarian. Rival Muslim factions (or whatever you call them), aren't putting roadside IEDs in place to kill each other. Shiites and Sunnis aren't driving around in armored Humvees, the IEDs aren't for them

[shadowkhas]

He has killed many of his own people, have many of you not seen the videos of the mass graves uncovered?

So it sucks that Donald Rumsfeld and Dick Cheney turned a blind eye to this WHILE IT WAS HAPPENING, because we were giving the Iraqis weapons to fight the Iranians, who are oh so bad for wanting to be left alone.
Oops!

And yes, that wasn't exactly the same time period, but we were basically leaving Iraq alone until they went after Kuwait, and Rumsfeld and Cheney were in positions of power in those times.

[Trulife8342]

Im sorry, Im going to say this whether people like it or not, And if you want to enter in a discussion with me about it then at least make sure you passed your government/economics classes in highschool and if possible college. Now back to my statement

The Government is keeping us some what fearful of Iraq (WMD's) but at the same moment not fearful enough to where we as americans (Tural do not ask for a definition, You know what I mean by that word) go out and find out the truth or the sole reason of why we are being afraid, The government is great at striking fear into us, but then reassuring us that their way to handle the problem will keep us safe, Now when 9/11 came Americans were angry/sad/caring/but mostly afraid, Once the president saw how the country responded to the attacks he started making his way to Iraq, Note how I say Iraq not Afghanistan, He knew he would have the Americans support to invade Afghanistan. Once we went in Afgn. we kicked ass, It was literally a week long war, They had their asses handed to them, But what the media showed was that the war in Afgn. was lasting longer than it did, To build up fear in Americans, After Bush saw the country unite the way it did we brought up what? yes little kiddies, Weapons of Mass Destructions Bush's favorite words, Now what do you think of when you hear the words W.M.D, Thats right, Hiroshima, Now of course we saw the after effects and what it can do so we were what? yes right again afraid but remember we are still pissed that someone came into our country and blew up 2 buildings so we arent going to question the president.....yet....Anyways moving on, Once we hear W.M.D's we are like well what do we have to do to be safe, Ahhhh This one is a toughy lets let Goergie answer this one....Well his answer was to go after who? yupp, Saddam, Why? simple, he had enough oil to last us 50 years, Now stay with me now, How can we convince already scared americans that this is a good idea?, Simple, Let them know Saddams history, So what happens? the Bush administration just gives a whole bio on Saddam and gets U.S.A to hate him and what else? thats right be afraid of him, Oh wait we are forgetting someone, Yupp Osama Bin Lauden, Now he was the one we first blamed but how do we switch the focus from him to Saddam without the country gettin suspicious?, Well lets try and tie Saddam to Osama, How? Al-Queda, Tell people that Saddam help give them funds and trained them in their country. Ok so now we have permission to kick Saddams ass, So we find him and kill him, What are we left with? A country that has no idea what to do with itself, And its full of Black Gold, Oil, But wait what about Osama, Well if we catch him we wouldnt have any reason to be afraid, I mean once we find the kingpin we shouldnt have any problems, And that my friends is why we still mysteriously cannot find that sneaky snake Osama, And same goes for those pesky W.M.D's.

But what happens when the country starts getting suspious and starts complaining about the soldiers not coming back? This is a quick fix, just flash random bombings and night explosions on FOX news so the people think we still have a reason to be there, I mean boom=bad, and bad=afraid, so aslong as we still see boom, the government still sees us what? yupp, Afraid, The Bush administrators a bunch of liars, each and everyone of them, Especially Cheny, Bush cant even complete a full sentence but he does know how to lie, And dont get me started on good old Donald, who in my opinion is the one that got us fucked in the first place, the only person that I have any type of respect for is Colin Powell who knew that it was wrong and it wasnt the correct way to solve the problem so he walked.

If you still support bush I want you to simply put your self in a soldiers shoes, Your out in a country fighting a war that has no reason, But thats not all, I want you to recall the Yearly presidential dinner, Where bush not only made fun of the fact that he didnt find any W.M.D's but in my opinion disrespected every soldier living and dead, and if you want his exact words that he spoke at that dinner they go as fallows.

"Where are those W.M.D's?, Nope not here, Maybe under here, Hmmm, lets try over here, Man where are those things?, Well we gotta find em some where"

Great job bush, Make fun of the very reason that your fighting a war, or wait let me restate that, Make fun of the very reason husbands, fathers, wifes, mothers, and kids straight out of highschool are fighting YOUR war.

[Tural]

I don't think you're in a position to say the soldiers are fighting a war that has no purpose. I'm willing to bet there's some soldiers that would be deeply offended by that. They fight for our country. Just because you disagree with the motivation behind the conflict, it does not mean the battle has no purpose.

[Trulife8342]

Your absolutly right, There are soldiers who will die for the freedom of their country, But tell me Tural are they really fighting a war over there?, No, Thats what you see in the media, All the soldiers are doing are policing the country, That isn't their job, they dont need to be there, And while yes your right, I am in no position to say that there is no "purpose", Theres one beautiful thing in this country that soldiers and and myself would die for, and its called freedom of speech, So I would very much appreciate it, If you do not tell me that I am not in a position to say that, I mean that is if you do care of the fact that their are soldiers out there dieing for my right to say that.

[Tural]

What? How did you warp my comment into a battle over free speech? I said there are people who would not agree with that comment, mainly the soldiers you speak of. Nowhere did I ever even hint at saying you had no right to say it. My comment was stating that you are not in their position, so you don't have the experience to be speaking for every person serving in the military. I loved the comment implying a possibility of me not caring about the troops. Good way to win an argument, appeal to the public's ignorance and emotional judgment. Yeah, when you put the other person in a position with such an idea, that's what you're doing. You're directly trying to call me out with the concept that I might not care, and, as a generality, the public will interpret that as meaning I don't care. That comment was ridiculously unnecessary and served only to attempt to degrade my credibility by using worthless tactics.

I'll await your comeback claiming that's not what you're doing, and I shall laugh.

[Trulife8342]

I never created a battle, Your the one who if under the impression that I am battling you, I told you in the very beginning you were right, just as I am, We both are correct, You can say what ever it is you please, All I am saying is if you please not say that to me again, If you say it again then its your right, Like I said, I backed my original statement up with facts, And the reason supposedly most american soldiers would feel offended (which I do not believe is true, Because a great friends of mine are currently serving and I write them about the subject constantly, First Sargent Davila, Sargent First Class Jackson, And Master Sargent Poole, Which all have stood by me when I speak my mind on the subject, Im not just speaking out of my ass.

And go ahead and laugh at my "comeback", Its not like I will lose sleep because a kid disagrees with me...