Mac's vs PC's

[WaywornMmmmm]

It's just the moniter, the keyboard, and the screen.

Am I missing something?


PC's FTW!

[[cc]z@nd!]

urgh. this is bugging me...


here's my stance:
PCs > non-intel Macs.
PCs ~ intel Macs.



and here's counter-points to many "MaCs 0wN" arguments:


"Macs are more secure than Windows"

dead wrong. the Mac OSX runs a UNIX MACH kernel, to quote hacking exposed fifth edition:

...with the introduction of OS X, the Mac is UNIX down to the core. Apple's underlying operating susytem is based on the MACH kernel (derived from Apple's acquisition of NeXT) and the venerable and ever popular FreeBSD.

..

a quick nMap scan of a Mac indicates the following open ports:

21/tcp - open - ftp
22/tcp - open - ssh
80/tcp - open - http
139/tcp - open - netbios-ssn
427/tcp - open - svrloc
515/tcp - open - printer
548/tcp - open - afpovertcp
631/tcp - open - ipp
6000/tcp - open - X11

As you can see...a multitude of services have been enabled and ar accessible via the network. If we connect to a few services, we can see the following:

[edited for brevity]
the important stuff is they enumerate the server versions:
Apache/1.3.29 (Darwin)
OpenSSH_3.6.1p1+CAN-2004-0175, SSH protocols 1.5/2.0, OpenSSL 0x0090702f
[/edited for brevity]

ah .. so the Mac runs Apache. Apache has had it's fair share of vulnerabilities in the pst, so we'll keep our eye on this service. .. well, what do you know? the Mac is running OpenSSH. Hmm...haven't we seen a few vulnerabilities related to SSH security recently? Of course. I guess we will have to keep our gaurd up on that service as well. ... Also, netbios file sharing is enabled, so this can be a convenient way for an attacker to gain entry to your files, and what's scarier is that many times when this service is enabled, people configure it without passwords or with very weak passwords--making it an excellent entry point into the system.

basically, with OS X the Mac got more functional, but has more soft spots to keep your eye on. so no, it's not an iron-walled fortress anymore.



Macs also don't have the type of customization PCs have. want to install a new videocard, some extra RAM, a soundcard supporting Hi-Def 7.1 surround sound and a new PSU to supply the energy your going to need? TOO BAD, with a MAC, last time i checked, it's not that easy. PC on the other hand, all that's stopping you is your wallet and whether you know how to install it or not.



Macs are better for graphics and video - well, i haven't had the chance to try this out on a Mac, so the OS might be more optimized for this type of work than windows, but then again, there's also hardware stuff you run into when upgrading graphics capability.



Macs also are expensive. and even if you guys just LOVE the software for Mac, i've got a few words for you: piracy, emulators, dual-boot (along with virtualization).


bottom-line is i think whatever you prefer is the deciding choice right now. i take PCs for their customization, low price, large market, RIGHT CLICK, and more; those are the main advantages over Mac right now. But Mac has a slightly more secure OS (because less people make viruses for it than windows) and a clean, fresh look that's very attractive.

super-straight-to-the-point bottom line is that nomatter what you take, if you don't take care of it, it WILL get fubar, and before long, each will be able to do what the other claims as it's strong suit. you guys can have your Macs and get laughed at, I'll take my Windows; i know how to take care of it and prefer customization over conformism.

[xXxCocoFangxXx]

They are both good in their own ways. I like PC's better because of what the run, but I like Apple because of the Graphics and how they are set up. I love the little Stickies that Macs have also.

[JK-47]

It's just the moniter, the keyboard, and the screen.

Am I missing something?


PC's FTW!

You know what I meant.

Macs don't necissarily have right click, they have a click that opens up a few options, a lot more options than the PC's right click.

Yes PC's are more customizeable (is that even a word?), but the Macs come out with pretty good hardware, and can run things really good until the next gen of games or whatever comes out, then they just make a new model and bam, your up to date on everything, you don't even have to worry about it, because Apples are built for quality, and dont call bullshit on what I'm saying because I've been able to mess around with Macs a lot.

Yes PCs are good, but they are built to break, simple as that. Companies get more money that way, and if you denie that you'd have to be pretty stupid to believe that they wouldn't get money off of your PC breaking. Yeah, theres insurance that you can buy for your computer, lemme quote a word from that sentence.. "Buy".

[rossmum]

urgh. this is bugging me...


here's my stance:
PCs > non-intel Macs.
PCs ~ intel Macs.



and here's counter-points to many "MaCs 0wN" arguments:


"Macs are more secure than Windows"

dead wrong. the Mac OSX runs a UNIX MACH kernel, to quote hacking exposed fifth edition:

...with the introduction of OS X, the Mac is UNIX down to the core. Apple's underlying operating susytem is based on the MACH kernel (derived from Apple's acquisition of NeXT) and the venerable and ever popular FreeBSD.

..

a quick nMap scan of a Mac indicates the following open ports:

21/tcp - open - ftp
22/tcp - open - ssh
80/tcp - open - http
139/tcp - open - netbios-ssn
427/tcp - open - svrloc
515/tcp - open - printer
548/tcp - open - afpovertcp
631/tcp - open - ipp
6000/tcp - open - X11

As you can see...a multitude of services have been enabled and ar accessible via the network. If we connect to a few services, we can see the following:

[edited for brevity]
the important stuff is they enumerate the server versions:
Apache/1.3.29 (Darwin)
OpenSSH_3.6.1p1+CAN-2004-0175, SSH protocols 1.5/2.0, OpenSSL 0x0090702f
[/edited for brevity]

ah .. so the Mac runs Apache. Apache has had it's fair share of vulnerabilities in the pst, so we'll keep our eye on this service. .. well, what do you know? the Mac is running OpenSSH. Hmm...haven't we seen a few vulnerabilities related to SSH security recently? Of course. I guess we will have to keep our gaurd up on that service as well. ... Also, netbios file sharing is enabled, so this can be a convenient way for an attacker to gain entry to your files, and what's scarier is that many times when this service is enabled, people configure it without passwords or with very weak passwords--making it an excellent entry point into the system.

basically, with OS X the Mac got more functional, but has more soft spots to keep your eye on. so no, it's not an iron-walled fortress anymore.



Macs also don't have the type of customization PCs have. want to install a new videocard, some extra RAM, a soundcard supporting Hi-Def 7.1 surround sound and a new PSU to supply the energy your going to need? TOO BAD, with a MAC, last time i checked, it's not that easy. PC on the other hand, all that's stopping you is your wallet and whether you know how to install it or not.



Macs are better for graphics and video - well, i haven't had the chance to try this out on a Mac, so the OS might be more optimized for this type of work than windows, but then again, there's also hardware stuff you run into when upgrading graphics capability.



Macs also are expensive. and even if you guys just LOVE the software for Mac, i've got a few words for you: piracy, emulators, dual-boot (along with virtualization).


bottom-line is i think whatever you prefer is the deciding choice right now. i take PCs for their customization, low price, large market, RIGHT CLICK, and more; those are the main advantages over Mac right now. But Mac has a slightly more secure OS (because less people make viruses for it than windows) and a clean, fresh look that's very attractive.

super-straight-to-the-point bottom line is that nomatter what you take, if you don't take care of it, it WILL get fubar, and before long, each will be able to do what the other claims as it's strong suit. you guys can have your Macs and get laughed at, I'll take my Windows; i know how to take care of it and prefer customization over conformism.

We have a winner.

[Leiukemia]

I tried using my teachers mac last year, and almost went nuts. Constantly clicking with my right finger, to no avail because it was the same button! But, I mean I guess you could get used to it. But I'm all for staying in my comfort zone. lol. Although, I do like the way mac works with space, I don't like the look of a big box sitting next to my moniter. Of course, I have my own laptop now so I don't have to worry about that.

[kirby_422]

PCs dude, if you have a mac, you would always NEED the newest version, cause back in elementry school we had got mac OS9, they where new back then, software was kinda rare, but then the moment Mac OS10 came out, EVERYTHING for 9 disaperd off the net, and nothing was backwares compatible.. PCs acleast are usualy a few versions back

[Tural]

Demosthenes, is it possible for you to make your points without saying things like "pieces of ****," "shouldn't be classified as a 'computer'," "cheap immitation," and "taste like ****,"? We get the point, you don't like them, but blurting out worthless bits of your opinion in the form of attacks on the computer doesn't enforce your arguments at all. In the end, it really just speaks to the weakness of them.

Also, let me address the "built to break" argument. So they build computers to purposefully break, making the customers angry, and possibly forcing them to stop buying the product? And they make the money, because people can't have the computer repaired, nope. Microsoft is the devil and gets every bit of money from everything that goes wrong, because when things go wrong, you cant fix them, you always buy a new computer, every single time. Also, Macs don't ever break, never never never, nope, impossible.

The argument makes absolutely no sense, they are not having meetings saying things like "How can we make these break so we can lose customers?" It doesn't happen, and to think it does is idiotic.

[Dr.Cox]

i like my PCac PC+Mac. i just invented it.

[[cc]z@nd!]

Also, let me address the "built to break" argument. So they build computers to purposefully break, making the customers angry, and possibly forcing them to stop buying the product? And they make the money, because people can't have the computer repaired, nope. Microsoft is the devil and gets every bit of money from everything that goes wrong, because when things go wrong, you cant fix them, you always buy a new computer, every single time. Also, Macs don't ever break, never never never, nope, impossible.

The argument makes absolutely no sense, they are not having meetings saying things like "How can we make these break so we can lose customers?" It doesn't happen, and to think it does is idiotic.

agreed. building hardware to break is idiotic, and thinking that it's on purpose is almost as bad. besides, even if they were designed to fry out after 100 hours of use, there would be the manufacturer's warranty to cover, and if there isn't one, then 1: why buy the product without a warranty and 2: why buy from the company when 2 of the same devices fail?

also, the only way i can reason with that is when parts do break. usually either from things that plauge all electronics (EMI, ESD, water, etc.) or from misuse or lack of maintenance on the user's part (years of dust causing problems, do-it-yourself repairs, being dropped) or just when it's past it's expiration date.

[JK-47]

Demosthenes, is it possible for you to make your points without saying things like "pieces of ****," "shouldn't be classified as a 'computer'," "cheap immitation," and "taste like ****,"? We get the point, you don't like them, but blurting out worthless bits of your opinion in the form of attacks on the computer doesn't enforce your arguments at all. In the end, it really just speaks to the weakness of them.

Also, let me address the "built to break" argument. So they build computers to purposefully break, making the customers angry, and possibly forcing them to stop buying the product? And they make the money, because people can't have the computer repaired, nope. Microsoft is the devil and gets every bit of money from everything that goes wrong, because when things go wrong, you cant fix them, you always buy a new computer, every single time. Also, Macs don't ever break, never never never, nope, impossible.

The argument makes absolutely no sense, they are not having meetings saying things like "How can we make these break so we can lose customers?" It doesn't happen, and to think it does is idiotic.

I never said Macs don't break, stop taking obvious points and making me look like an idiot. PCs break more, period.
And I never said that once a PC breaks it can never be fixed, you take things a little too extreme Tural. PC's are manufactured like crap (there I didnt say shit tural, happy? nowstfu) I don't know why but Macs are a lot more sturdy than a PC is.

Anyways, I found a way to make me happy, I'm installing a Mac OSX immitation OS thing for my PC, cause it's just more organized .

[Tural]

I'm not making you look like an idiot. I'm simply pointing out flaws in your arguments.

[JunkfoodMan]

I think Macs are good for work, Graphics, designing etc. not really for my interests, such as Gaming, Modding, any other related subjects.
PC's are good, they have alot of Software, I grew up on them, They have Anything I want or need.

I would go with a PC, but you guys can say otherwise.
Macs can Break. PCs can break. Only if you treat them badly. Its not how safe they are, its how safe you make it. If you're dumb enough to go on the internet without Virus Protection or Firewalls, then you shouldn't be on a PC.

Who here relys on Windows Security centre anyway?

[Tural]

I never said Macs don't break, stop taking obvious points and making me look like an idiot. PCs break more, period.
And I never said that once a PC breaks it can never be fixed, you take things a little too extreme Tural. PC's are manufactured like crap (there I didnt say **** tural, happy? nowstfu) I don't know why but Macs are a lot more sturdy than a PC is.

Anyways, I found a way to make me happy, I'm installing a Mac OSX immitation OS thing for my PC, cause it's just more organized .

Can't you make your point without making attacks on me? Apparently the answer is no. Well, I'll leave you with your radical ideas and you may continue to insult me. kbai.

[FleetAdmiralBacon]

I've always found Mac to be less, er, professional than a Windows PC
But now with all the crap that Microsoft is adding to Windows - it started with the huge theme for XP (which I despise oh so very much) - I've seen that transition over to Windows. Also, Gate's has gotten much greedier - I still see him as an idol and his obvious search for World Domination is something I admire - so Windows has gone down the tubes. I mean, what's so special about Vista that couldn't just be added to Windows? Really? Omg, transparent themes! ALREADY HAVE THEM (hate them too, never wanted one), Superior video editing? YOU DID THAT IN XP, DOUCHBAGS! Now we can see our windows when we hit Alt-F4! Ever seen the new task switcher? I have it, you can do the same thing and it doesn't hog your graphics card!



Now I don't want to get involved in this, it's like politics, I might as well just moved to open source or learn enough machine code to write my own OS, but Windows is starting to suck.

I don't know why but Macs are a lot more sturdy than a PC is.

Really? When I threw that piece of junk out the window at school it broke pretty easily...
Nah, I'm jk

I really think the battle is over the OS, not the hardware.
Windows and Mac will fight to the death and then Linux will kill the winner and claim all computers for the Open Source rulership of the world.

[xXxCocoFangxXx]

Everyone needs to stop attacking each other.

[JK-47]

Yeah, I'll stop. But OMGWTF This Mac OSX theme for XP totally pwns!

[RaVNzCRoFT]

I like PC's better, because I grew up using them and I've never had problems with them.

[-Laser-]

The proprietary aspects of macs are what make me really dislike them. If I can't build it myself, or I can't have virtually every aspect of it customized exactly the way I want it, I don't like it.

And the reason macs don't get viruses very often is the same reason firefox and opera users don't have as much to worry about in the way of getting hacked, scammed, or getting viruses. They aren't the majority.


After using macs on a near daily basis in my Digital Graphics and 3D Design class, my opinion hasn't changed. Macs are full of fancy little special effects, but overall are for the most part, quite similar to windows PCs. I won't lie, Max OS is more stable. But there are a number of simple aspects which annoy me. Example: Hitting the "home" key doesn't take you to the beginning of a line when typing, and the "end" key doesnt take you to the end; the backspace key and the delete key aren't interchangable when you want to delete a file(I think); and as I said before, there are many annoying special effects, such as the "genie" minimizing thing, the size changing icons on the dock, etc.(yes, I know those can be turned off), and the thing where the login box has spasms when you enter a wrong password.

This is just my main impression. Since I only use a mac for 1 and 1/4 hours ever other day(we have block scheduling), I admit theres a chance that I may not be getting the full picture.

[jks]

These arguements about Macs being more secure than PCs are complete bullshit, yes I know its been stated already. Whether people realize it or not hackers are very smart and lazy people. They won't take the time or effort to write malicious code, whether it be viruses, trojans, spyware, or other malware, for an OS that a rather small percentage of the consumer electronics populus uses. Thus there are very few viruses and such written for the Mac OS, the same reasoning applies to other forms of *nix, like linux and its many distros. In fact the only virus/trojan that I remember working on both windows and Mac (and if memory serves also linux, but not 100% on that) is the Sub7 worm, of which I kind of know the developers by proxy (friend of a friend of a friend...). Bottom line is that if the weight of users suddenly shifted from windows to Mac, you would bet that there would be more malware written for the Mac OS.