Marijuana debate

[Ragdoll]

Those aren't even the long- term effects of alcohol either.

[shadowkhas]

Like other people have said, Aumaan, alcohol causes those as well. Are you for the criminalization of that? Because we had that, and it didn't work too well. What it did do, in fact, was cause violence to rise.

irritability, nervousness, depression, anxiety and even anger

What normal teenager doesn't have those already?

Marijuana is filled with hundreds of chemicals

So is, most likely, the food you eat.

I honestly don't see those as a reason for keeping it illegal. If someone feels like it's worth it, let them do it, as long as they are aware that it's harming them, and that they shouldn't come crying to the government for health care about it.

[GametagAeonFlux]

Marijuana is filled with hundreds of chemicals

So is, most likely, the food you eat.

I think cigarettes would be a better comparison here shadowkhas...

[Aumaan Anubis]

Problems with memory and learning
Distorted perception
Difficulty with thinking and problem solving
Loss of coordination
Increased heart rate
Anxiety, paranoia and panic attacks

beer causes all of these

I'm not exactly a fan of alcohol, either.
Drunk Driving? Death?

Like other people have said, Aumaan, alcohol causes those as well. Are you for the criminalization of that? Because we had that, and it didn't work too well. What it did do, in fact, was cause violence to rise.

I would be for the criminalization of it, except for the violence that was mentioned. I'm not exactly sure that there was violence when it was tried, but I'm guessing that it is because it was too late. Because, it had been legal before. As far as I know, marijuana has never been legal, or if it had been, the use wasn't as widespread.

For instance, if marijuana was legalized, and then criminalized weeks later, I could imagine that there would be an uproar of anger. Therefore, the same situation.

And, we're not criminzalizing marijuana. We'd just be keeping it the way it has been.

irritability, nervousness, depression, anxiety and even anger

What normal teenager doesn't have those already?

I... guess I'm not normal? And obviously, the frequency of those states of mind would probably be increased due to the substance.

Marijuana is filled with hundreds of chemicals

So is, most likely, the food you eat.

Which is why, I said it probably wasn't evidence in my favor. And the food we eat has been approved as healthy, and fit for human consumption. Drugs, have not, and are still seen as detrimental to human society.

I honestly don't see those as a reason for keeping it illegal. If someone feels like it's worth it, let them do it, as long as they are aware that it's harming them, and that they shouldn't come crying to the government for health care about it.

It doesn't work that way. More people would be involved. Peer pressure would increase, because now, "it's OK." You don't legalize something because it'll only affect the person doing it.

I see anything that has a potential to damage humanity as a thing that we should avoid. Drugs, cigarettes, alcohol, wars, I'm all against these. All they do is hurt the human race as a whole. Rarely do you hear a story in which someone was saved from ultimate death because their rescuer was intoxicated. All I hear is how someone was killed because their killer was intoxicated.

[shadowkhas]

Marijuana is filled with hundreds of chemicals

So is, most likely, the food you eat.

I think cigarettes would be a better comparison here shadowkhas...

Yes, with the type of chemicals...but my point is that everything's shoved full of stuff that can potentially cause damage to you, and that we aren't sure about.

I'm not exactly a fan of alcohol, either.
Drunk Driving? Death?

You state that as though it is an absolute certainty that one will get in a car and drive while under the influence of alcohol, and that whenever you drink, you attempt to drive. You hear mostly about that because that is what is reported, is deaths due to drunk driving. What about motor vehicle deaths due to people that are sober? I'm guessing those are more prevalent than deaths due to someone that is intoxicated.

I would be for the criminalization of it, except for the violence that was mentioned. I'm not exactly sure that there was violence when it was tried, but I'm guessing that it is because it was too late. Because, it had been legal before. As far as I know, marijuana has never been legal, or if it had been, the use wasn't as widespread.

Gangs. Bootleggers. The '20's. Prohibiting alcohol did not severely impact whether people used it. All it did was put a fine on what was already being done, and only stopped those who were afraid of being caught in the law. Then, it led to the rise of illegal alcohol smuggling, which caused conflicts between rival smugglers. These kinds of things still happen with drugs today, although not in such a large scale as it used to be. Why was it in a large scale? Because shit loads of people drank alcohol, even though it was illegal. Everyone knew what places had illegal alcohol, and so they just went there to the back alley clubs.

I... guess I'm not normal? And obviously, the frequency of those states of mind would probably be increased due to the substance.

Mood swings are frankly quite common things that happen due to hormones, it's not an isolated case or two...

Which is why, I said it probably wasn't evidence in my favor. And the food we eat has been approved as healthy, and fit for human consumption. Drugs, have not, and are still seen as detrimental to human society.

Yes, the FDA does a wonderful job certifying very safe medicines like Vioxx.

I see anything that has a potential to damage humanity as a thing that we should avoid. Drugs, cigarettes, alcohol, wars, I'm all against these. All they do is hurt the human race as a whole. Rarely do you hear a story in which someone was saved from ultimate death because their rescuer was intoxicated. All I hear is how someone was killed because their killer was intoxicated.

I don't think anybody is saying that being under the influence of chemicals makes you an amazing person. No kidding that a rescuer shouldn't be smoking marijuana or drinking alcohol, because that does slow some of your thinking processes. I don't think anyone is severely disputing that, either. I just believe that it should be legalized on a basis that it is illegal (I'd guess) primarily because of the social stigma it has, which is against our current legality of other chemicals that are for personal consumption, but are abused, unfortunately.

[Ragdoll]

I think the drug is much more dangerous when illegal. Not only can it cause "rivalry" between to dealers or gangs, but these dealers could do anything they want to it before they sell it for example lacing it with another drug or sustance).

[Aumaan Anubis]

You state that as though it is an absolute certainty that one will get in a car and drive while under the influence of alcohol, and that whenever you drink, you attempt to drive. You hear mostly about that because that is what is reported, is deaths due to drunk driving. What about motor vehicle deaths due to people that are sober? I'm guessing those are more prevalent than deaths due to someone that is intoxicated.

It was an attempt to convey my position in terms of alcohol. In my opinion, alcohol does more harm than good, so the argument for it being criminalized would be a strong one. The only reason that sober deaths are more prevalent is because humans are relatively smart, and don't always drink when they drive.
I'm just saying... No alcohol, less human casualties.

Gangs. Bootleggers. The '20's. Prohibiting alcohol did not severely impact whether people used it. All it did was put a fine on what was already being done, and only stopped those who were afraid of being caught in the law. Then, it led to the rise of illegal alcohol smuggling, which caused conflicts between rival smugglers. These kinds of things still happen with drugs today, although not in such a large scale as it used to be. Why was it in a large scale? Because **** loads of people drank alcohol, even though it was illegal. Everyone knew what places had illegal alcohol, and so they just went there to the back alley clubs.

But what I'm saying is, there's no argument in this category for the legalization of marijuana. Government legalizes it, then the same situation occurs with the alcohol. More people drive while in their state of being 'high,' and more death occurs. The government then tries to fix the problem, but that only leads to citizen anger and more of the substance abuse.

Mood swings are frankly quite common things that happen due to hormones, it's not an isolated case or two...

Allright, allright, allright. I probably made the "I guess I'm not normal" statement because of stubbornness of trying to disregard your point. However, my point of "The frequency of these states of mind will increase," still stands. One of the things on the list was depression. You say, being a teenager, that you will have mood swings, due to hormones, and I agree. One of the "moods" you pass through is depression. And also, paranoia, etc. The things that were mentioned on the list. The higher frequency could easily damage the state of a fragile mind. Long and frequent periods of depression/paranoia, etc. can lead to thoughts of death and suicide.

Yes, the FDA does a wonderful job certifying very safe medicines like Vioxx.

Yes, there are incidents like that, for unknown reasons. However, I still trust the FDA, because it's not had me consuming something detrimental. So, despite your point, which is valid, I'm still leaning toward trusting the FDA.

I don't think anybody is saying that being under the influence of chemicals makes you an amazing person. No kidding that a rescuer shouldn't be smoking marijuana or drinking alcohol, because that does slow some of your thinking processes. I don't think anyone is severely disputing that, either. I just believe that it should be legalized on a basis that it is illegal (I'd guess) primarily because of the social stigma it has, which is against our current legality of other chemicals that are for personal consumption, but are abused, unfortunately.

The point of the "rescuer" reference was to say that these substances abuse never seem to lead to anything positive within someone's life.
And yes, I do believe that because of our current mentality, marijuana is seen as such a terrible thing, when really, it isn't(or so, it seems I've discovered from that substance chart). However, I see that the negative effects outweigh the positive effects, and why legalize something that could only serve to hurt us?

[shadowkhas]

But what I'm saying is, there's no argument in this category for the legalization of marijuana. Government legalizes it, then the same situation occurs with the alcohol. More people drive while in their state of being 'high,' and more death occurs. The government then tries to fix the problem, but that only leads to citizen anger and more of the substance abuse.

Well, I can see your point there. It's my opinion from having talked to people who do use drugs that the issue of legality doesn't stop them from using it and doing something dangerous (driving a car).

[Ombre]

Should it really be the governments responsibility to protect us from ourselves? Should they also make it illegal to eat McDonalds? If you don't want to smoke weed thats fine, but I don't see the need for forcing others to follow your beliefs on the subject.

[Ragdoll]

Should it really be the governments responsibility to protect us from ourselves? Should they also make it illegal to eat McDonalds? If you don't want to smoke weed thats fine, but I don't see the need for forcing others to follow your beliefs on the subject.

I was just about to make a point such as this, but I couldn't think of good way to word it.

[Aumaan Anubis]

Should it really be the governments responsibility to protect us from ourselves?

Yes.

Is the rest of your comment directed at me?

[shadowkhas]

Yes.

And that's where we start getting just down to beliefs...I highly believe that having too many protections is pathetic. Yes, some warnings are always a good thing...like warning labels and education about cigarettes. But don't FORCE people to protect you, to compensate for the lack of your society's intelligence. A forced protection is what, in my opinion, will be the end of this society, one that can't think critically about the environment it is in, and will have to rely on a higher force to do its thinking for itself.
That's what I base my opinion off of here. If people want to harm themselves, go right ahead. A government that treats everyone like children that can't think for themselves is the same as an oppressive one that won't tolerate a stance other than the official one.

I guess it's a stalemate, and we won't budge from our respective viewpoints, and I apologize for going off topic a bit, but it's all connected together in my mind, and it's hard to stay on one issue without involving the others. I hope that at least I'm able to change some people's opinions, but I'm done with this topic. I'll still read it, but I'm not going to respond and repeat the same things over again with no goal.

[Aumaan Anubis]

I know that you won't respond, but I'll make my point anyway,

Yes.

And that's where we start getting just down to beliefs...I highly believe that having too many protections is pathetic.

Yes, too many protections is pathetic. However, protections are needed to regulate society.
Why is drunk driving illegal? To protect us from ourselves.
Why is murder illegal? To protect us from ourselves.

Laws are created to protect us. Especially if, 'from ourselves,' you mean, 'humanity.'

[Ombre]

Those laws were made to protect the general population from an individual. Drunk driving for example isn't illegal because the government wants to protect the drunk driver as it is so much as wanting to protect those he/she might injure/kill. Last I checked some kid lighting up a joint never directly killed an innocent bystander (or not so innocent for that matter).

[Ragdoll]

Auman, when the government starts creating these laws and rules to protect us, we cannot let it go too far. I would not give up my free will too protect myself from this "drug".

To explain what I mean in a simpler way, I will quote my good friend Ben Franklin:

He who gives up freedom for safety deserves neither.

[Xero]

Auman, when the government starts creating these laws and rules to protect us, we cannot let it go too far. I would not give up my free will too protect myself from this "drug".

To explain what I mean in a simpler way, I will quote my good friend Ben Franklin:

He who gives up freedom for safety deserves neither.

I concur.

[Aumaan Anubis]

If a moderator could re-lock this thread, that'd be great.

[GametagAeonFlux]

Relocking thread, etc.