Goth

[XBC-Requiem]

Here we go, Veegie.
Quote war.
:)

Oh man, if that's anything like being appalled, then you must be angry.

Shot at a spelling error. I'll give you that. You made me laugh a bit.

I suppose you'd add reason to a near-unjustifiable act the same way you'd attempt to justify other meaningless things. Like say... randomly changing the colour of every paragraph you type?

Not random. I was adding color to better separate each statement.
Yes, the white boxes around quotes do that, but I was doing it to show separation to the target.
I was going to go back and fix it... seems that you already did.
Thank you.

Yes, because it means that you can dress sensibly in society...
You don't need to wear those clothes by any means. But you do anyways for attention.

Why does one wear a favorite college t-shirt and jeans? Why does one wear a necklace? Why do girls wear high-heels? Because they want to. Same goes for myself. I wear what I want to wear, because that is what I enjoy wearing.

I hope you were going to keep them company, otherwise you're going to sound incredibly hypocritical due to the following:

I go because I like to stay open-minded. If I expect them to be open-minded about me, I should be the same towards them.

Not in a war?... Give me one good reason why you as an individual being in the army justifies appreciation for you as a member of the army. Not the army as a whole, but you.

Okay. Terrorists attack American soil. We do nothing about it. We show no power whatsoever. They do it again. Again. Again.
Without the military, we would not have survived the attack from Japan during World War I...
The Revolutionary War would not have happened and we would belong to Great Britain...
One good reason? Because I signed up to fight for the United States, because, whether or not you do, I feel that I owe something to my country, and to those who live here. I decided that I should earn my rights, not have them handed to me.

Really? But didn't you just say it's about free expression?...

For me. I can't justify the mindless Freshmen that attend my school.

What happened to being open minded and respecting other people's decisions?...
Oh right, I forgot that you're biased.

I refuse to respect someone who can't respect themselves and those around them.

See above, Mr. Dogmatic.

When I am shown respect, I am more than happy to return it.

As for your response to Dsoup's post, well... it really doesn't warrant one.
Since you latched onto a comment tightly just so you could go off about your academic achievements.
Great job on your personal-boasting though.
But being that this is a topic on the Goth clich

[kibito87]

Earings have been worn since before recorded history. Ear piercings conform to the gender's genitalia like pants are designed to, right?...

There are assorted apparel that are created for both parties. Granted it may not be pants but why is it such a problem that it's pants? If it's that unappealing to you, pay no attention to it. If you can't control yourself from showing attention, then that's your own fault.

No one said it did.

People assume.

*cough*

My apologies, I don't quite understand what is meant by *cough*, please explain.

I'll get back to you when I can find a claim that said otherwise.

See above. It's assumed by many that people with long-ish black died hair are emo.

Why?

Well for one, the way people can act can range anywhere from idiotic, to insane. The list goes on. Also, I guess nobody cares about other's feelings when they are too busy labeling them.

You don't need to wear those clothes by any means. But you do anyways for attention.

Thus can be said for any type of clothing. Everybody could be trying to make a fashion statement (attention) by wearing something. Sooo, wouldn't that mean everybody is wearing some type of clothing for attention?

Consensus on general morality. Dawkins writes great pieces on this subject.

Who's to say if that general consensus is right? I believe it's for you as a human to decide (which could turn into a discussion on beliefs but let's not get that started, I don't really enjoy belief discussions). I'd also appreciate it if you didn't come up with an extreme scenario to compare this to. Though you may not/hopefully don't do that.

Obnoxious, distracting, and intruding.

I can say that about the 80's style that teenage girls are trying to sport again. You don't see a general consensus on how bad that looks today. Aren't they just trying to get attention as well? So why verbally abuse a certain group of people for how they dress if everyone isn't going to come down on all the other cliques.

No they don't try for attention, remember?

No they don't try for attention, remember?

Not everyone tries for attention. This doesn't happen in all cases but it happens.

And if you can label someone's mindset and persona spanning their entire lives up to that very moment in time with two broad and incredibly general terms due to one case of accountability, you're a hypocrite, and kibito87.

Did I say they would be close minded and ignorant the rest of their lives? Up until now, they have made the decision to not like the way goths dress or whatever their beef with them is. So yes, until this date, they are infact close minded. If you judged someone as a whole "spanning their entire lives up to that very moment in time", wouldn't that be kind of barbarous? Nobody knows if these kids will dress this way a month from now? Maybe they are just going through a "phase" where they want to dress this way.

lol I'm way to lazy to keep this going so i'm not going to make a huge post like this again. I'm sure you will pick this post apart again and I say have at it. Plus, arguing is annoying to me so kibito87 = done

P.S. My thanks for showing enough respect to correct my name.

[shadowkhas]

Not in a war?... Give me one good reason why you as an individual being in the army justifies appreciation for you as a member of the army. Not the army as a whole, but you.

Okay. Terrorists attack American soil. We do nothing about it. We show no power whatsoever. They do it again. Again. Again.
Without the military, we would not have survived the attack from Japan during World War I...
The Revolutionary War would not have happened and we would belong to Great Britain...
One good reason? Because I signed up to fight for the United States, because, whether or not you do, I feel that I owe something to my country, and to those who live here. I decided that I should earn my rights, not have them handed to me.

I just want to pop in to comment here...I'm quoting this and replying in the "Iraq" thread, if we want to continue that fragment there.

[XBC-Requiem]

Feel free.

[Tural]

Why should it be any different when I censor bypass than when anyone else does? It is done quite often.

[DWells55]

Here's my question: why bother dressing like that? It's just a bunch of extra effort for nothing. There's nothing wrong with normal socially acceptable clothing. There's no need to alienate yourself from the rest of the population. There's a lot of goth/emo kids that are really creepy, so dressing like that is going to make people think that way about you. Yeah, it's an unfair judgment, but it's also human nature for the most part.

[XBC-Requiem]

I know, I know. If someone is sensoring themselves, I dont' see an issue with it, so I don't report them.

[V0Lt4Ge]

Yeah, it's an unfair judgment, but it's also human nature for the most part.

Yep. A lot of what my post was based on.

[XBC-Requiem]

Here's my question: why bother dressing like that? It's just a bunch of extra effort for nothing. There's nothing wrong with normal socially acceptable clothing. There's no need to alienate yourself from the rest of the population. There's a lot of goth/emo kids that are really creepy, so dressing like that is going to make people think that way about you. Yeah, it's an unfair judgment, but it's also human nature for the most part.

Girls wear makeup. Isn't that a bunch of extra effort for nothing? You're not saying anything about that. (And no, I don't wear makeup).
There's nothing wrong with my clothing, either.
I'm not alienating myself. I'm being alienated. In fact, I'm feeling it here more than I do around home. People have learned that I'm a respectable member of society.
There are a lot of people who wear jeans and t-shirts who are really creepy, too. You hear about rapists and child molesters and serial killers all of the time who, in terms of appearance, fit into society.
Why should I have to dress the way you do? Isn't it part of the foundation of America invested in the thought of independence? IF I were doing it to be an individual, then I should have the right to be.

[Veegie]

If you can't control yourself from showing attention, then that's your own fault.

And by your logic, me throwing a stone near someone and hitting them is their fault for being there.

People assume.

You assume.

My apologies, I don't quite understand what is meant by *cough*, please explain.

I don't compensate for literalism.

See above. It's assumed by many that people with long-ish black died hair are emo.

And again with your personal-assumptions somehow speaking for a whole of a demograph.
You're full of yourself.

I guess nobody cares about other's feelings when they are too busy labeling them.

Wrong.

You don't need to wear those clothes by any means. But you do anyways for attention.

Thus can be said for any type of clothing.

Not any that fit into what is loosely defined as decent.

Consensus on general morality. Dawkins writes great pieces on this subject.

Who's to say if that general consensus is right?

Unless you're ignorant to what that even is, this is a rare occasion where a majority would denote standards.

So why verbally abuse a certain group of people for how they dress if everyone isn't going to come down on all the other cliques.

By your logic, we shouldn't speak unless we are going to say our complete feelings on a subject and all other pertaining subjects as a whole indefinitely. Sadly, that isn't the case.

Not everyone tries for attention. This doesn't happen in all cases but it happens.

Considering you never spoke of the contrary, I'm going to take a shot in the dark and say that it's the majority.

Did I say they would be close minded and ignorant the rest of their lives?

No you didn't. 'Nor did anyone claim you made that statement.

they have made the decision to not like the way goths dress or whatever their beef with them is. So yes, until this date, they are infact close minded.

I'm calling you on your flat out bullshit here.
Your logic: Someone decides how they feel about something and they are close-minded.
Actuality: A goth has decided they like Gothic clothes and have decided to wear them.

Goth == close-minded?...

Why does one wear a favorite college t-shirt and jeans? Why does one wear a necklace? Why do girls wear high-heels? Because they want to. Same goes for myself. I wear what I want to wear, because that is what I enjoy wearing.

See: Morality
This is less suitable from a societal perspective than this...

Okay. Terrorists attack American soil. We do nothing about it. We show no power whatsoever. They do it again. Again. Again.
Without the military, we would not have survived the attack from Japan during World War I...
The Revolutionary War would not have happened and we would belong to Great Britain...
One good reason? Because I signed up to fight for the United States, because, whether or not you do, I feel that I owe something to my country, and to those who live here. I decided that I should earn my rights, not have them handed to me.

Cool examples, but you missed something.

Not the army as a whole, but you.

For me. I can't justify the mindless Freshmen that attend my school.

Because what you said strictly applies to Freshmen, right?
I'm sure that was the point you were trying to make.

I refuse to respect someone who can't respect themselves and those around them.

Let me re-phrase what you said earlier, excluding the opinion-resulted circumstances:

Why do 120-pound guys wear an XXXL shirt and pants with the waist at their knee's? Because they want to. They wear what they want to wear, because that's what they enjoy wearing.

1. I wasn't abusing color codes. I was using color to more clearly separate statements to each person.
2. I'm not puting others down. I'm merely stating that someone should be judged by their personality, not their clothes. Not baseless by any means.
3. Censor bypass? Why should it be any different when I censor bypass than when anyone else does? It is done quite often. Mind you there is no need for profanity, it's not like I was using a lot of it. I used it once in a large statement. I apologize for its use, but there's no need to slam me for it.

1. It's overusing a feature on these forums to an unneeded extent. That is abuse.
2. I would get the quote where you flat out called him stupid and yourself smart, but I removed it.
3. Because it's a rule. See it being done?

[SpecOp44]

There's a lot of goth/emo kids that are really creepy,

Whenever I see one I get a strong sensation for punching that person in the face. Not sure why. =\

[XBC-Requiem]

It's less suitable because society is generally unaccepting. If you go to Africa, you'll see women with super-stretched necks and men with large discs in their lower lip. That's what society 'accepts'. Bring that here, and you get 'freak', because people are unaccepting of culture not like their own.

"I feel that I owe something to my country"
Me? Because I am doing something so that you have the right to fight with me.

"Because what you said strictly applies to Freshmen, right?"
I was talking about them when I said that they're doing it to fit in.

And if you'll take into account everything I said about the theoretical male in large clothing, you'll notice that I implied how his clothing had nothing to do with the matter. It was the way that he acted that had the effect on my opinion.

1. It was unintentional abuse. I apologize for abusing it to such a manner.
2. I never said that he was stupid.
Just because person A is more intelligent than person B, it does not mean that person B is stupid.
3. Already addressed, already apologized for

The following is NOT aimed at anyone, but rather an insightful statement. And no, I'm not a pot smoker, nor am I a big fan of Bob Marley.
"Who are you to judge the life I live?
I know im not perfect-and I don't live to be.
But before you start pointing fingers,
make sure your hands are clean."
-Bob Marley

[noscottno]

*Insert epic rebuttal here*

You are my hero.

[noxiousraccoon]

I'll be honest.
I'm completely appauled at the way a lot of you act.
Hm. I don't get that stereotype much. Maybe that's because I don't worship anything. Sure, I'll go to church with a friend if they ask, but I sure as hell don't worship the devil. It's kinda ironic to worship something that you don't believe in.
Talk to a goth some time. I'll bet you that 9 times out of 10 they won't believe in Satan.

Ofcourse you dont get that stereotype. People arent going to come out and say, "O look, that guy has gotta worship the devil". That wasnt my point. Its a stereotype, which is the possible answer to your question, its not my opinion. I dont know what you believe nor does it relate to the answer your looking for. Since you seem to have read my post and didnt comment, ill ask it again: So, if the public doesnt accept you and its not worth your time, whats the purpose of this thread?

[Ragdoll]

I'll be honest.
I'm completely appauled at the way a lot of you act.
Hm. I don't get that stereotype much. Maybe that's because I don't worship anything. Sure, I'll go to church with a friend if they ask, but I sure as hell don't worship the devil. It's kinda ironic to worship something that you don't believe in.
Talk to a goth some time. I'll bet you that 9 times out of 10 they won't believe in Satan.

Ofcourse you dont get that stereotype. People arent going to come out and say, "O look, that guy has gotta worship the devil". That wasnt my point. Its a stereotype, which is the possible answer to your question, its not my opinion. I dont know what you believe nor does it relate to the answer your looking for. Since you seem to have read my post and didnt comment, ill ask it again: So, if the public doesnt accept you and its not worth your time, whats the purpose of this thread?

Pwnt.

[Dsoup]

This isn't a stereotype like in the case of religions or races, they don't choose to be how they are. Goths/Emos on the other hand, choose exactly how they are and know the consequences from doing so.

All the Goth's and their supporters still haven't given a reason for why they dress up in such a fashion. They've only said "no, it's not for attention" and haven't given any other reasons.

[auerhantheman1]

You can choose what religion you are, your analogy is false. Also, what consequences?

[Dsoup]

You can choose what religion you are, your analogy is false. Also, what consequences?

People tolerate religions. As you can see, people aren't as fond of Goths. What they wear, whether they like it or not, has a bad impact on most people. If you're born a religion, you usually don't switch out of it until you're 18 if you really have a problem with it. You're aren't born into being a Goth, that's a decision you make by yourself, for yourself.

[shadowkhas]

All the Goth's and their supporters still haven't given a reason for why they dress up in such a fashion. They've only said "no, it's not for attention" and haven't given any other reasons.

Can it be because they like how it looks?
I must've stumbled on an amazing theory there.

[Veegie]

All the Goth's and their supporters still haven't given a reason for why they dress up in such a fashion. They've only said "no, it's not for attention" and haven't given any other reasons.

Can it be because they like how it looks?
I must've stumbled on an amazing theory there.

Why do they like how it looks?
Because it isn't accepted by society as it is filled with grossly-unneeded things.

So why would you dress as something you know society looks down on?
Attention.
Unless you are going to sit here and try to tell me that Goth's think that society a big fan of their clothing choices.

"OH BUT THEIR FRIENDS ARE!!!"
Yes but remember the old, "I already have enough friends"?

Save us the stolid sarcasm, thanks.

EDIT: Dissolution241 reminded me of some classic Maddox reads here and here.