Jeep with Treads....

dazzajay · Post by **dazzajay** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 1:56 am

hi all, i was wondering if it is any way possible to replace the jeeps wheels with the tanks treads, im guessing it would be some kind of bone swap, kinda like removing the jeeps wheels by changing the bones, but instead of removing them, replace them with the tanks tracks.

if anyone knows if this is possible plz tell me how.

xzodia · Post by **xzodia** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 2:18 am

i dont think that would be possible without modeling....

although maybe your going about it the wrong way...

you could replace the tank turret with a warthog...

but you might not be able to drive it

dazzajay · Post by **dazzajay** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 4:08 am

all i want to do is remove the jeeps wheels and replace them with the tanks treads.... im pretty sure Snaku will be able to awnser this as he has been doing a lot of research in the bones area.

xzodia · Post by **xzodia** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 4:41 am

he told me that right now all he can do is null them...

anyway im sure it would require more than bone stuff since they are different models. bones and markers are only for animation/placement of parts of an object

every model has a static position and this is changed by the bones for different animations ect

Doom · Post by **Doom** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 4:57 am

xzodia wrote:he told me that right now all he can do is null them...

anyway im sure it would require more than bone stuff since they are different models. bones and markers are only for animation/placement of parts of an object

every model has a static position and this is changed by the bones for different animations ect

Markers actually tell something were to spawn on a model. As for bones I haven't looked into them really.

-Doom

xzodia · Post by **xzodia** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 6:10 am

well i was just asuming that bones and markers were the same thing i know about bones because ive used them in modeling

wat do you mean markers tell something were to spawn?

dazzajay · Post by **dazzajay** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 6:13 am

i know what he means, when i Nulled the Bones, the jeep still sits there at normal hight even tho the wheels cant be seen, but when the markers were nulled, well, the back of the jeep dropped to the ground and the frong glitched and made the jeep nose stand, from what ive seen, the markers also include the physics, where as the bones seem to be visual.

Snaku · Post by **Snaku** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 6:15 am

I think xzodia is right on this one. What you'd need to do (probably--haven't tried yet, so I dunno' for sure) is start off with a tank, and I guess null the shaders on the hull (unfortunately, you won't be able to get rid of the tank's collision or phmo, since the treads are part of it) and replace the turret with a warthog: or rather with your flighthog (with the suspension and wheels removed).
Now the tricky part: you'd have to find a way to move the turret's marker so that the jeep would be centered properly, and to really make it perfect, you'd have to be able to move the treads' bones to line them up with where they ought to be on the hog. Then you're going to want to null the tank's seats, leaving the hog ones... I think the hog would be able to drive then, but not positive. Another "not sure" but I suspect the hog would do some swiveling when you turn, just like the turret would've.
Or.... you could start with the hog and replace its turret with a tank and go from there. Since the hog's turret doesn't rotate when it turns, that won't be an issue, and the seat will already be set up. No clue if the treads will drive like they're supposed to, but I'm sure they wouldn't collide with the ground properly.
Also, another thought: you may not even have to figure out how to move the turret's marker. I noticed that if you nulled a tank's turret marker, it didn't remove the turret; just moved it to the center of the vehicle (looked funny). Maybe if I get some time between the other things I'm working on (I'm STILL tweaking the balance issues in my vehicles) I'll give it a shot.
[edit] Yes, the markers are different from the bones. They seem to tell where to place things (sounds, turrets, parts of the phmo). I imagine that when we tried nulling the wheels markers it just moved them to the center, or to the center of their parent or something. Perhaps it's closer to the front of the hog than the bottom and that's why it nosedives when you null 'em?

xzodia · Post by **xzodia** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 6:26 am

i got a very good image of what this could look like after reading snaku's post.... and i have to say it would be one of the coolest vehi's ever!

thing of this, instead of moving the treads in (which wouldnt be very good anyway since the coll would stay yes?) why not have the hog in the center(turret, markers nulled) and then move the markers/bones of the suspension to inside the treads so that the suspension connects the hog to the treads. can you imagine how cool that would look? then you could move the marker for the turret(hog) up a bit and you'd have a monster tank tread truck of sorts!

dazzajay · Post by **dazzajay** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 6:28 am

woah, thats pretty confusing, but i was thinking it would be cool to have a all terrain jeep with treads that goes faster than a tank but slower than a jeep, i shall play around and see what kind of results i get

:::EDIT:::
i got the idea from a image i saw of 5 halo 1 jeeps, one was a snow jeep and it had tank treads, and it looked hella cool.

xzodia · Post by **xzodia** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 6:30 am

has it occured to you that a hog is a 4x4(all terrain vehi)?

edit: yea those are cool ive been wanting to make them for halo 2 for ages maybe we can find a way

dazzajay · Post by **dazzajay** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 6:31 am

4x4 yes, but a 4x4 with the added traction of treads and some better weaponry would rule.

xzodia · Post by **xzodia** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 6:33 am

dazzajay wrote:4x4 yes, but a 4x4 with the added traction of treads and some better weaponry would rule.

dont forget it must be balanced! lol

edit: im going to have an experiment now cause im bored

dazzajay · Post by **dazzajay** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 6:40 am

balance yes, its only a jeep with treads, so same ol jeep armour level and its slower than a normal jeep

xzodia · Post by **xzodia** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 6:45 am

ok 1st err where do i find the bones and markers...

dazzajay · Post by **dazzajay** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 6:50 am

its in insolence, switch to dev mode, in the warthog MODE tag if i remember correctly

Snaku · Post by **Snaku** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 7:11 am

Good luck moving them, X. Let me know if you find a way... especially the bones.
Ok, so I tried my idea and there's several problems.
1. Nulling the turret marker didn't center it enough. It's centered on top, but didn't sink very far.
2. The treads (the main body of them, not the actual traction part) seem to share the same shader as the hull, so nulling it makes it look all kinds of stupid.
3. The jeep's seat doesn't make the tank move. I thought I'd heard of a way to make a hog drivable from the turret seat, so if it's possible, you should be able to make the tank drivable from the turret seat (which, in this case, would be the hog's seat).

xzodia · Post by **xzodia** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 7:44 am

wat shader did u null? if u look at the mode theres shaders for the treads and hull

Doom · Post by **Doom** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 7:50 am

snaku wrote:Good luck moving them, X. Let me know if you find a way... especially the bones.
Ok, so I tried my idea and there's several problems.
1. Nulling the turret marker didn't center it enough. It's centered on top, but didn't sink very far.
2. The treads (the main body of them, not the actual traction part) seem to share the same shader as the hull, so nulling it makes it look all kinds of stupid.
3. The jeep's seat doesn't make the tank move. I thought I'd heard of a way to make a hog drivable from the turret seat, so if it's possible, you should be able to make the tank drivable from the turret seat (which, in this case, would be the hog's seat).

Moving them would be a problem wouldent it

. In hex for bones when you are lets say the lf_suspension offset in hex there should be a

X Y Z
and a
Yaw Pitch Roll

in the reflexive, if you are desperate you can do that...

And about your number 3 statement I belive that is perfectly possible. Also earlyer while I was poking around in the vehicle tags while working on my project think of ideas on how to mkae it work I was looking in the tank and I noticed that you can make the side seats on the tank work like they did in halo 1 so you could have your buddys hop on it.

Vehicles are fun arent they

. Kinda the talk of the forums right now.

-Doom

Edit: 300th post

-Doom

xzodia · Post by **xzodia** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 10:12 am

ok after reading up on bones and stuff i made my tank tread hog, without changing bones and stuff 1st to interesting effect and after looking at what happened when i nulled all the hull shaders i think i can fix that so i will update perhaps with a pic soon

edit: oooo 'mazing discovery!! havent tested but im fairly sure i know how lock on works now!!! i tell you whan you understand markers there is so much that can be acheived...

edit 2: the reason you can change the values of wat u think are coords is that the value type is undefined if you can edit the plugin so that the value type is defined you will be able to change it

i am making progress with bones, i have drawn a diagram of the tanks bones and now fully understand how siblings work

edit 3: i have also been look at the coll and it seems to work in the same way but everything is unknown so until i fully understand the mode i am not going any further with that

edit 4: im about to attempt to change the hull to a different bone in order to make the hull disappear

edit 5: well that has got to be the funniest thing i have ever seen, and it has furthered my understanding which is good
the effect of what i did was similar to the removale of the hog wheels on inside i removed the treads and i did it in a different way (looks a bit like a mole or a rat) stranglely changing the name of the bone had no effect that i could see... must be just for refrence...also the top bone is always the 1st in the list and as far as i can see this cannot be changed

edit 6: new idea rather than trying to put treads on the warthog turn the warthog wheels into treads...

another idea... cool transporter thingy... null the treads and widen the hull...maybe add some seats

edit 7: had idea for changing top bone...(edit)it would probaly just make the whole thing disappear or freeze acutally so nvm