Broken scarab in Turf

Snaku · Post by **Snaku** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 2:52 pm

Anybody who's followed my previous threads will probably be able to make a fairly decent guess where I'm going with this. Nevertheless, I felt it warranted a new thread as it has further reaching implications.
Most people already know you can spawn a scarab in turf without having to bring it from another map. I haven't tried personally, but I'm under the impression that it's a whole scarab standing in the normal position, right? But, after closer examination of the one that's in turf already, I've determined it's actually broken (one of the legs that sticks up in the air is broken off) and it's posed differently. So, my question is, where in the map is it's pose and broken state defined? Would it be possible to break it even more? I already know I should be able to disconnect the bones in the model to make the legs appear to go away, but their collision would still be there. I would like to entirely remove them, and I believe the answer is in this map somewhere. If anybody knows, or has any ideas where to look (I'll probably start out in the jmad and see if there's any that aren't in the sp version) I would love to hear some input.

Limpmybizket · Post by **Limpmybizket** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 3:13 pm

I havnt actually looked into the map, but considering its a barrier in the map, i'd guess its linked to the BSP.

Snaku · Post by **Snaku** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 3:19 pm

It's not. I've looked into the map a bit. Enough to know that Bungie added the scarab in almost the same way we would. It's still a mach. Under jmad, all of it's walking and climbing animations are there, even though they serve no purpose in this map. All it's vehicle tags are intact. It's almost as if they used Insolence to drag it into the map. But they took it a step further by actually posing it (I can't even express how much I would love to be able to do this) and breaking off part of it (they may have completely broken off the other two legs--can't tell since they'd be underground if they're still there.
[edit] I can't figure out how it was even spawned in the map. I opened Turf in ADI and used blue guerilla, but it doesn't have anything under machine, though it does show scarab under mach palette. So, where would I look to find the specific spawn point they used? I figure I could try moving that one around to get a better look at it and to see if they actually broke off the collision of the leg or if it's just had the bone detached or something.

dazzajay · Post by **dazzajay** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 8:50 pm

there are points where you can see where the other legs are soposed to be.... they are not on the scarab.

Snaku · Post by **Snaku** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:18 am

What?

shade45 · Post by **shade45** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:22 am

Looking at the scarabs mach tag its seems to have 4 variations

default
scarab_gated
scarab_no_turret
old_glory

Go to the scarabs mach tag and look for the string id "default" and try changing it to one of the 4 strings i mentioned above

Snaku · Post by **Snaku** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 8:02 am

Which program are you using? I can't seem to find it, or I just don't know what you're talking about.
Another question: Since I basically just want to get rid of the legs (I'm pursuing every option I can think of) I'm looking at the phmo now. In Insolence, under unknown 5 of the scarab's phmo, I'm seeing parts of the the legs and stuff. Now, in my experience, simply changing the stringid to nulled out won't effect any change. Is there a way to null these out then?

Doom · Post by **Doom** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 8:16 am

He is talking about insolence and I belive you might have to change it to dev mode also.

Hope this helps

-Doom

xzodia · Post by **xzodia** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 10:08 am

here to help again snaku you better give me some credit for all the help im giving you!

when you say the leg is broken off and posed differently are you saying its where it should be but its not attached to the rest of the scarab?

have you considered that there is 1 scarab leg in turf, connected to the fallen scarab? and it definetly isnt in it normal postion, i think its what your looking for

Snaku · Post by **Snaku** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 10:16 am

Didn't quite follow that one. Seems there are two legs that you can see, but the one is broken off at the... knee... I guess. The other is in a different pose than the neutral/default/whatever pose.
Hm... upon further examination, it seems the two other legs are not attached either. At least the one I can get a good look at isn't. I assume the other one isn't either.

xzodia · Post by **xzodia** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 10:42 am

i think we are confusing our scarabs here

when i said "there is 1 scarab leg in turf" i was talking about the 1 which can be seen normaly ie without anymods whatsoever, across the roofs of the buildings

and you didnt answer this (refering to the scarab which can be spawned by modding):

when you say the leg is broken off and posed differently are you saying its where it should be but its not attached to the rest of the scarab?

Snaku · Post by **Snaku** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 11:10 am

Yeah. No mods. There's the one leg that stretches out over to the roof, but it's posed differently than the standard pose. The other one is broken off at the knee. I didn't see the rest of the leg laying around anywhere or anything, and you can shoot through where the leg would've continued to.
Wait, that other question was about one you can spawn? I haven't actually done it, but the way I'd heard it, was it would spawn just like normal when you drag a scarab into any other map from new mombassa.

xzodia · Post by **xzodia** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 11:16 am

i just reread your post and i understand it now

have you looked in the bsp veiwer to see if it is part of the bsp?

Snaku · Post by **Snaku** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 8:05 pm

I'll check that tomorrow. Why would it be there, though? I mean if it were just part of the bsp, would it still be in the mach tag?

XxSilencedDeathxX · Post by **XxSilencedDeathxX** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 8:45 pm

Try what shade said. Go to the scarab in Dark Matter. Click its mach. Press the + next to strings. Swap away and test.

shade45 · Post by **shade45** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 10:41 pm

yeah if your going to try what i said im using insolence in dev mode just to clarify.

Snaku · Post by **Snaku** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 10:20 am

shade45 wrote:Looking at the scarabs mach tag its seems to have 4 variations

default
scarab_gated
scarab_no_turret
old_glory

Go to the scarabs mach tag and look for the string id "default" and try changing it to one of the 4 strings i mentioned above

Um... does it mean I'm stupid if I can't figure out what you're saying here? So I open up turf in Insolence. I click mach, which brings up the scarab's plasma door and the scarab itself (what's the plasma door, btw?). I double click on the scarab, then switch to dev. Now what? I see: all values, all dependencies, unknown 1 and 2 (both greyed out), attachments, widgets (also greyed out), and predicted resource. Now if I change it to the tag information plugin, I can see some string id's, the first of which is "48:default [1]" but you can't change things there. Do I not have the correct plugin, or something? I notice mine is 'ifp plugin "mach" v 0.3 by Iron_Forge'.

cookiecutter · Post by **cookiecutter** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 10:57 am

thats kinda cool if we could figure out how to pose a scarab that'd be awsome.

shade45 · Post by **shade45** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 12:02 pm

Ok heres a new version of the mach plugin i labled what im talking about to its easy to find
http://rapidshare.de/files/16164268/mach.rar.html

Just change the "Variation Default" to one of theose 4 string ids and see what happens

Snaku · Post by **Snaku** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 12:13 pm

Thanks, Shade. Looks like this is something I want to try in another map besides, turf, though. That means dragging in a scarab, which means waiting for three hours. Guess I'll report back tomorrow, 'cuz I need to get some sleep before I go to work tonight.

cookiecutter wrote:thats kinda cool if we could figure out how to pose a scarab that'd be awsome.

Hopefully, if this can be figured out, it would mean a lot more. Doppelgangers that actually hold a gun. Maybe you could even have them charge forward--no ai, of course, but set them to run straight forward. I'm sure there would be more, but I'm too tired to think of any right now.
[edit] Ok, I found something interesting (couldn't resist poking around a bit before I went to bed). When I opened up the drag down box, I started looking around for scarab stuff. About two thirds of the way down I found "busted_scarab, scarab_turf, and busted_scarab1 through busted_scarab5." These are string id's I suppose. I guess they could relate to anything: sound effects or whatever... or they could be variations of the scarab. Unfortunately, when you open that drag down box, it seems to list ALL string ID's, not just the ones that actually relate. So, how did you determine those other ones were variations? Obviously, scarab_no_turret is obvious, but how could tell that old_glory was a scarab thing? Is there a way of narrowing down what you get from that box?
A bit off topic, but since Insolence site seems to be down (and has been for a while now) is there anywhere else I can go to get the latest IFP's? Or can someone who has a good collection of them zip 'em up and post them or send them to me? I had it all up to date before I reformatted (stupid backup I made lost all my halo and xbox modding stuff) but now I've got all old ones.
[edit #2] For some reason, I can never seem to spawn a scarab. It's really starting to piss me off. Doesn't help that my copy of adi has a different blue guerilla than what I was used to before. Anyway, I decided to experiment on a map that already has a scarab spawned in it, so I used Exhaustion. Changing the default thing to any of those variations had no effect

I had thought that the scarab_no_turret might remove the phmo of the turrets (when a scarab is spawned, even though you can't see the turrets, and can shoot through them, their phmo is intact and you can walk on them) but it didn't. In fact, the only apparent effect was that the signature of the map changed significantly (some minor tweaks only change the last digit of the sig, but these changed the whole thing) so it seems that SOMETHING happened, but nothing I can see. I want to try switching to the busted_scarab strings I saw, but they don't seem to be in exhaustion... I'm guessing because the scarab they used was extracted from new mombossa, not turf.
Btw, I found where you got the variations from: they're in the hlmt tag.