Jeeps rear wheels...
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superaison
- Posts: 175
- Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2005 5:06 pm
E-mail sent. Sorry, I was out all freakin' day so I couldn't do it sooner.
Amusing results? Well, I switched the bones of the two rear engines; thought that might lock them. It didn't, but it brought them in closer to the jeep. If they could be brought even closer it could be a motorcycle mod. But the phmo was still the same (it still drove like they were in the right place) so I went into markers ans swapped the rear wheels there. This resulted in an impossible vehicle to drive: The left wheel still wanted to act like it was the left wheel even though it was on the right side. So when you hit a bump on the left side, the shock absorber on the right side would give, and the jeep would roll. It was kind of fun to drive, but incredibly frustrating. I'll have to try swapping the front and back wheels some time to see how that handles.
Amusing results? Well, I switched the bones of the two rear engines; thought that might lock them. It didn't, but it brought them in closer to the jeep. If they could be brought even closer it could be a motorcycle mod. But the phmo was still the same (it still drove like they were in the right place) so I went into markers ans swapped the rear wheels there. This resulted in an impossible vehicle to drive: The left wheel still wanted to act like it was the left wheel even though it was on the right side. So when you hit a bump on the left side, the shock absorber on the right side would give, and the jeep would roll. It was kind of fun to drive, but incredibly frustrating. I'll have to try swapping the front and back wheels some time to see how that handles.
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dazzajay
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oh man, the self flipping jeep, thats pretty funny....
out all day? thats better than me, i was sleeping all day,
the insolence that you sent opend headlong YEAY!
ima start tinkering around, oh btw, does this make the map not compadible on system link?
:::edit:::
if changing the whellls left to right made it roll, front to back shoud be the allmighy backflip jeep!
:::EDIT:::
i was looking at IMS and i was thinking, the distance to parent thing that you said, IMS might be able to do it, where as Insolence couldent, its worth a try, but i have no clue what numbers do what in it.
:::edit::: i also think i am stupid, i cant find the bone tag... is it hidden in Jmad? or somewhere else? i found steering in the jmads, but i cant seem to find the bone tags..... or am i looking at them?
:::EDIT:::
how exactly would i null out the Suspension & tyres so they dont appear atall, because the next episode of totally random needs a jeep that fly's, and i figure for the flying shots, it has no suspension & tyres. or if the suspension cant be removed, just have the suspenson stumps up as high as possible.
and for the landing shot, i want it to have the suspension stumps, but no tyres.
i know i cant do them both at the same time as they would be two different mods, so i will just cut the shot at the right time, and apply the suspension stump's only mod and film the next shot.
so i need some fairly detailed instructions as i am a beginner at Insolence.
out all day? thats better than me, i was sleeping all day,
the insolence that you sent opend headlong YEAY!
ima start tinkering around, oh btw, does this make the map not compadible on system link?
:::edit:::
if changing the whellls left to right made it roll, front to back shoud be the allmighy backflip jeep!
:::EDIT:::
i was looking at IMS and i was thinking, the distance to parent thing that you said, IMS might be able to do it, where as Insolence couldent, its worth a try, but i have no clue what numbers do what in it.
:::edit::: i also think i am stupid, i cant find the bone tag... is it hidden in Jmad? or somewhere else? i found steering in the jmads, but i cant seem to find the bone tags..... or am i looking at them?
:::EDIT:::
how exactly would i null out the Suspension & tyres so they dont appear atall, because the next episode of totally random needs a jeep that fly's, and i figure for the flying shots, it has no suspension & tyres. or if the suspension cant be removed, just have the suspenson stumps up as high as possible.
and for the landing shot, i want it to have the suspension stumps, but no tyres.
i know i cant do them both at the same time as they would be two different mods, so i will just cut the shot at the right time, and apply the suspension stump's only mod and film the next shot.
so i need some fairly detailed instructions as i am a beginner at Insolence.
Yeah, front to back should make for some fun flips. Haven't got around to trying it yet (making a flippy hog wasn't really what I was after).
The wierd thing is you CAN edit distance to parent, but it doens't seem to have any effect. I did the logical thing and added the distance from the bone I was skipping to the wheel's bone. Should've put it at the right distance but nothing happened. What you CAN'T edit is the coordinates. They're the last three unknowns.
Bones are under the mode tag. Dunno' how much you know about Insolence, so I figure I'll let you know that once you open the warthog in the mode tag, you'll want to click up at the top where it says edit mode, so that it switches to dev mode. There'll be a bunch of unknowns and also a few others: parts (haven't gotten anywhere with this), bones (where the most of my experience is), and markers (which is where I messed with the wheel physics).
As far as jmad, I haven't gotten anywhere. Well, except when I changed the one value to NaN, but it didn't have the desired effect. Couldn't find anything that seemed to control the diff wheels. In my experiments with the scarab I found things in jmad that I was able to identify as the height of various parts (the hull, legs, and so on) but it wouldn't let me change them.
Hope that helps you get started, and I hope you're able to figure out more than I could. If you do, please let me know, 'cuz it might help with my scarab project.
[edit] Looks like you added to your post while I was responding. Let me try to take on the rest of your questions.
One of the things I tried was disconnecting the tire bones entirely. To do this, you go to the parent bones (the engines-as I've mentioned there's an engine for each wheel) and change the value of its "first child" to -1, not 0 since 0 is the number for the hull. You'll also want to change the wheel's parent to -1. When I did this, it entirely removed the tires (just the models-the physics and effects were still in place). I haven't done any additional experimenting on this, but I'm going to make my best guess that the reason the tires disappeared is because they are a seperate model (when you export the hog's model you'll find that it's in several parts-the wheels being one). I haven't actually looked at the hog's model, so I don't know for sure, but I'm going to guess the suspension is another seperate model (though;again guessing; the engines are probably part of the same model as the suspension, so disconnecting that bone won't have any effect--they were still there when I skipped over them), so if you disconnect it's bones they should become invisible. Or you could do it the old fashioned way and null the shaders, but that can have unpredictable results sometimes. For example, the ridges on either side of the ramp on the scarab's back use the same shader as the legs, so when I nulled the legs, it also made those ridges invisible.
On the physics end of the stumps, you'll want to use ADI, I think. There's an option for the hog's ride height or something like that. It will let the hog lower much further to the ground. Also, back in Insolence, if you go into the markers and null out the wheels (the two back wheels are markers 27, and 41; I never checked for the front wheels) it will remove them from the physics. To do this, you'll click on the drop box where it says the marker's name, scroll all the way up to where it says null and click it. You'll probably want to do this for your landing scene as it will remove the tires collision so the stumps will actually touch the ground. Keep in mind that even if you lower the ride height, when the hog is off the ground the suspension will extend all the way (I don't know any way to raise them otherwise, so you'll want to remove them for the actual flying scenes).
The wierd thing is you CAN edit distance to parent, but it doens't seem to have any effect. I did the logical thing and added the distance from the bone I was skipping to the wheel's bone. Should've put it at the right distance but nothing happened. What you CAN'T edit is the coordinates. They're the last three unknowns.
Bones are under the mode tag. Dunno' how much you know about Insolence, so I figure I'll let you know that once you open the warthog in the mode tag, you'll want to click up at the top where it says edit mode, so that it switches to dev mode. There'll be a bunch of unknowns and also a few others: parts (haven't gotten anywhere with this), bones (where the most of my experience is), and markers (which is where I messed with the wheel physics).
As far as jmad, I haven't gotten anywhere. Well, except when I changed the one value to NaN, but it didn't have the desired effect. Couldn't find anything that seemed to control the diff wheels. In my experiments with the scarab I found things in jmad that I was able to identify as the height of various parts (the hull, legs, and so on) but it wouldn't let me change them.
Hope that helps you get started, and I hope you're able to figure out more than I could. If you do, please let me know, 'cuz it might help with my scarab project.
[edit] Looks like you added to your post while I was responding. Let me try to take on the rest of your questions.
One of the things I tried was disconnecting the tire bones entirely. To do this, you go to the parent bones (the engines-as I've mentioned there's an engine for each wheel) and change the value of its "first child" to -1, not 0 since 0 is the number for the hull. You'll also want to change the wheel's parent to -1. When I did this, it entirely removed the tires (just the models-the physics and effects were still in place). I haven't done any additional experimenting on this, but I'm going to make my best guess that the reason the tires disappeared is because they are a seperate model (when you export the hog's model you'll find that it's in several parts-the wheels being one). I haven't actually looked at the hog's model, so I don't know for sure, but I'm going to guess the suspension is another seperate model (though;again guessing; the engines are probably part of the same model as the suspension, so disconnecting that bone won't have any effect--they were still there when I skipped over them), so if you disconnect it's bones they should become invisible. Or you could do it the old fashioned way and null the shaders, but that can have unpredictable results sometimes. For example, the ridges on either side of the ramp on the scarab's back use the same shader as the legs, so when I nulled the legs, it also made those ridges invisible.
On the physics end of the stumps, you'll want to use ADI, I think. There's an option for the hog's ride height or something like that. It will let the hog lower much further to the ground. Also, back in Insolence, if you go into the markers and null out the wheels (the two back wheels are markers 27, and 41; I never checked for the front wheels) it will remove them from the physics. To do this, you'll click on the drop box where it says the marker's name, scroll all the way up to where it says null and click it. You'll probably want to do this for your landing scene as it will remove the tires collision so the stumps will actually touch the ground. Keep in mind that even if you lower the ride height, when the hog is off the ground the suspension will extend all the way (I don't know any way to raise them otherwise, so you'll want to remove them for the actual flying scenes).
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dazzajay
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cool, thanks for the edit, i shall get working right away, and post some screen caps when done.
:::EDIT:::
also, is there a way to make it so the stumps are spaced out more? they just look a little too close to the center
:::EDIT:::
ok, i nulled the wheels (front and rear), so it would be just the stumps on the ground, and something weired happend.....
it does that every time the jeep is exited, (this is the no visual stumps ver)
:::EDIT:::
also, is there a way to make it so the stumps are spaced out more? they just look a little too close to the center
:::EDIT:::
ok, i nulled the wheels (front and rear), so it would be just the stumps on the ground, and something weired happend.....
it does that every time the jeep is exited, (this is the no visual stumps ver)
Heh. I just tried this and had the same result. Guess I should've experimented more before I suggested a course of action. It's kind of fun to try to drive it though, right?
Well, never mind nulling out the markers, then. If you open the vehicle in ADI there are a lot of nice check boxes, one of which is flying. I noticed when I made it fly that the wheels seemed to disappear into the ground so that'll work instead of nulling the markers. Wierd that nulling the back two wheels only made a slippery ride, but nulling all four makes it all kinds of crazy.
Well, never mind nulling out the markers, then. If you open the vehicle in ADI there are a lot of nice check boxes, one of which is flying. I noticed when I made it fly that the wheels seemed to disappear into the ground so that'll work instead of nulling the markers. Wierd that nulling the back two wheels only made a slippery ride, but nulling all four makes it all kinds of crazy.
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dazzajay
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downloading ADI now,
that screenshot was taken when the jeep was in flying mode, so it dosent really matter because that jeep will only be seen flying and it levels out with a driver
[the only app ive ever really used is CH2R, great app, good for extracting / injecting textures
:::EDIT:::
heres a pic...
:::EDIT:::
i am unable to find the hogs ride height setting in ADI
:::EDIT::: Do'h, im stupis, i was looking at it "Human Veichle Height From Ground"
that screenshot was taken when the jeep was in flying mode, so it dosent really matter because that jeep will only be seen flying and it levels out with a driver
[the only app ive ever really used is CH2R, great app, good for extracting / injecting textures
:::EDIT:::
heres a pic...
:::EDIT:::
i am unable to find the hogs ride height setting in ADI
:::EDIT::: Do'h, im stupis, i was looking at it "Human Veichle Height From Ground"
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superaison
- Posts: 175
- Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2005 5:06 pm
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dazzajay
- Posts: 582
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there's auctualy 2 different mods in use there, theres the flying Aussie Air force jeep, and there's some 800 second Sticky nades on the back.superaison wrote:Like omg,
http://www.potholestudios.xmgfree.com/j ... ngMode.jpg
Give me that mod!!!
if you want it, i will post a patch for headlong here after i get one issue fixed.
:::EDIT:::
well, more like a few problems, a handling issue, and a nosestanding issue as seen in a pic above...
:::EDIT:::
ugh, well i just found out i cant make the Human Veichle Ride Height 0.00, cos if i doo the jeep dosent spawn!
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superaison
- Posts: 175
- Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2005 5:06 pm
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dazzajay
- Posts: 582
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the grenades are optional, they come out of Plazma Pistol. the nade explosion timer is 999 seconds. i will make a .ppf soon, doing filming ATM with a different jeep.
:::EDIT:::
theres a slight problem... i dont have a stock Headlong.map, so i cant make a .ppf, so i will .rar headlong.map and the texture wich goes in shared.map, and PM you with a DL link.
:::EDIT:::
theres a slight problem... i dont have a stock Headlong.map, so i cant make a .ppf, so i will .rar headlong.map and the texture wich goes in shared.map, and PM you with a DL link.
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superaison
- Posts: 175
- Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2005 5:06 pm
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dazzajay
- Posts: 582
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i am uploading the .zip to my sites hosting now, its 30 meg, and this is gonna be death on my 64k upload, so i will go to sleep, and edit this post when its up, and send you a PM
:::EDIT:::
i am PMing you the link to the mapfile now, it comes with 2 skins, the RAAF jeep, and the Communist Jeep (to be seen in Act 5 of Totally Random) please dont give out the DL address for this file, my site only has 2GB of transfer a month.
:::EDIT:::
i am PMing you the link to the mapfile now, it comes with 2 skins, the RAAF jeep, and the Communist Jeep (to be seen in Act 5 of Totally Random) please dont give out the DL address for this file, my site only has 2GB of transfer a month.
I had no idea a flying jeep would look that cool. I mean, like, I was all for being helpful but at the same time I was like "Why does he want a flying jeep with no wheels? That won't be cool." But it is cool. Maybe I'll have to use this idea if I ever suss out my airship idea. I plan on doing a whole big air battle map, and a flying jeep might make it even more interesting.
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dazzajay
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yeah, a big airship with a few "Airborne Battle Jeeps" with some cool weapons would be amazing.... crazy ass airbourne dogfights.snaku wrote:I had no idea a flying jeep would look that cool. I mean, like, I was all for being helpful but at the same time I was like "Why does he want a flying jeep with no wheels? That won't be cool." But it is cool. Maybe I'll have to use this idea if I ever suss out my airship idea. I plan on doing a whole big air battle map, and a flying jeep might make it even more interesting.
Now if I could just get the airship working... 
Really, though, with a max of 16 players, it might not be that much fun to have the flying hog. You could easily have every member of an 8 man team contributing plenty to the battle just on the ship (pilot, 4 turrets, 3 guys with snipers or rockets). Adding another 3 man vehicle (which can be taken down with just one rocket) might not be the best choice. But I do like vehicles, so maybe I'll use it in another mod sometime.
Really, though, with a max of 16 players, it might not be that much fun to have the flying hog. You could easily have every member of an 8 man team contributing plenty to the battle just on the ship (pilot, 4 turrets, 3 guys with snipers or rockets). Adding another 3 man vehicle (which can be taken down with just one rocket) might not be the best choice. But I do like vehicles, so maybe I'll use it in another mod sometime.
Well, if I can't get my airship to work, maybe a sufficiently modified hog would be the next best thing. Nowhere near the gameplay possibilities, but better than nothing. And part of the plan was that you'd need the airship to transport a captured flag or assault bomb, so using the hog could have a similar effect.
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dazzajay
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Sounds like a pretty cool game, if i could make maps from scratch i would have a massive map, no floor or anything (just flight barrier so to not fly straight down to death)... you can still fall there tho., and 2 cliff walls at either end, and built into those cliff walls would be the 2 bases, both bases would have 2 rooms of flighthogs pointing toward the exit, and ready to go, then from those rooms there would be a series of tunnels to a main flag room. both bases would be verry semetrical, there would be a player spawn room, NO ROCKET LAUNCHERS, so you would have to use stratagy. and all the tunnels would be big enough to fly the jeeps thru......
