I would like to start a thread about marketing HaloCE to people so they'll come play custom maps.
Six months ago I came to HaloCE and there were tons of maps and lots of people playing it. I had computer issues...fast-forward six months, more maps and barely anyone playing!
Now I come here and go to other forums and I read the posts, as I'm trying to learn how to contribute to the mapping community and although there are a few wonderful people here, there are a lot more people more interested in stroking their egos than there are at mapmaking or community building.
I'm not here to start a flamewar...rather I'd like to say, what if we mappers (I use that term loosely since I'm not yet an official mapper) work together in some way to bring people together to promote HaloCE outside our own circles? I have a couple of suggestions and I'd like to get yours as well. I would be happy to participate although I don't have the time to create a new site or moderate a forum. I would however, do what i could to help. These below suggestions are ones I propose to run concurrently not an either-or kind of thing.
Suggestion #1: Create a panel of of gamers who review their favorite custom maps and list their strengths and weaknesses. The entire panel would review each map and only if it got a good score from them would it go to their list. There would be rules around what they were judging for (ie ...balanced, not too confusing, texture quality, layout, etc). They would also be responsible for listing links to all the sites where they could be downloaded (not deep links- just links to those sites).
This would build a community that helped each other and promoted sites that actually hosted maps etc. Additionally there would be one easy way to promote your new map - you could send it to these reviewers for consideration.
Suggestion#2: Have a server with these favorite maps cycling through on it.
This would give people new to HaloCE one place to see how awesome it really can be and realize the reason HaloCE was released to start with. Perhaps it would even inspire great mappers/texturers/modellers to contribute even more.
Suggestion#3: Map makers band together to show their tips and tricks. I can't tell you how many times I've seen something like, " I know how to do this trick and I'm not showing you newbs how"....or "I know way more tricks on making good maps than anyone else".
This is just plain stupid. Eventually a mindset like this will completely kill off HaloCE. I think we still have a chance to rebuild it, but its going to take everyone pulling together to create and release really cool maps, not have this map with horrid models and cool weapons and this other map with great models but ugly textures, etc.
Suggestion#4: start promoting HaloCE and places it can be downloaded from in your sigs on whatever forums you frequent (particularly those that aren't HaloCE related)
Don't just promote your own map or clan, but the game proggy that allows you to actually play those maps. C'mon - you'd still have plenty of room on your sig to promote your stuff, just give a lil back to the community. This is one I just thought of - and I could start today.
Suggestion#5: Help newbs! Don't flame them, don't laugh at them, HELP THEM! Guess what, you looked like an idiot too when you started. Don't be the person who turned the next greatest HaloCE mapper away.
Anywho...those are my ideas- I don't think this would even require a new website (although it could be done that way) or even a new server. Most server operators would be happy to have a map pack of really cool maps to play.
I can't wait to hear each of your thoughts. Again these are my ideas and I just thought it would be cool to open a discussion. If something doesn't change though, people, we may not have a HaloCE community in another 6-8 months.
HaloCE promotion discussion For Map Makers...
HaloCE promotion discussion For Map Makers...
Last edited by picklebro on Sun Feb 06, 2005 7:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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DaRealMASTERCHIEF
- Posts: 71
- Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 3:38 pm
the term "marketing" is a bit off, more like getting publicity for the game, we have all tried to persuade more, its funny on the files forum every so often in the Halo PC section a thread will pop up flaming the people who dont play halo CE, if you play halo PC there are many players, they are people who just want to play a game before work or somthing and dont check forums and dont care less about modding the game up.
These websites to promote other websites on modding halo, as in affiliates, and they post alot on front pages and so on.
I think there already are servers with map cycles, lots of map makers have come together, but I know people who work best on there own and sometimes having a load of people working on a map is plain annoying.
Lots of people do promote Halo CE in there signatures, but in this forum, whats the point.
There are alot of people who help beginners.
When I started to go onto like CGTalk forums, I just hardly ever posted but I read loads of the threads there, I then started to post criticizm of peoples work, and posted a few of my own work once I knew just about everything.
Also on both files forums and forums of halomods, I have only posted one thread. You have posted loads
.
These websites to promote other websites on modding halo, as in affiliates, and they post alot on front pages and so on.
I think there already are servers with map cycles, lots of map makers have come together, but I know people who work best on there own and sometimes having a load of people working on a map is plain annoying.
Lots of people do promote Halo CE in there signatures, but in this forum, whats the point.
There are alot of people who help beginners.
When I started to go onto like CGTalk forums, I just hardly ever posted but I read loads of the threads there, I then started to post criticizm of peoples work, and posted a few of my own work once I knew just about everything.
Also on both files forums and forums of halomods, I have only posted one thread. You have posted loads
.I humbly disagree with your concept of marketing vs. publicity. Publicity is part of the total marketing package you must know about a product and you most 'need' it.
Many people that do know about CE just don't have a 'need' for it - marketing is about creating need. Either way I think we all could be actively recruiting for HaloCE outside of our own circles (we already have it don't we?
). I know I haven't been. Every post could be an ad for HaloCE.
I'd say the #1 reason the community shrinks is there is no continued excitement around it. #2 is probably the fact that you have to know something about computers to make it work. You can't just click a link and its installed and then sign up to a server and have the map auto-download. No, you have to install it after you find it, then you have to download the maps, unzip them and put them in the folder. THEN it works. I'd say that doesn't help.
However, Enemy Territory, the multiplayer stand-alone version of RTCW that ended up being much more than an addon is almost as hard to use and has a lot more following. I know ET is easier to map for, but then again its not Halo. We can still create need and energy around this 'product'.
As for mapping, I wouldn't want someone I didn't know pitching in on my map either unless I saw enough of their stuff to trust them, but I would be happy to have them help me through some trick they'd already discovered - that's what I had in mind about mappers getting together. I've seen a lot of mappers absolutely refuse to help another mapper with something because they were afraid someone might upstage them.
I agree too many chiefs can destroy the tribe though ...I was thinking more along the lines of people helping each other with ideas than actually helping on the maps.
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Other than that, did you have some suggestions for building the community?
Many people that do know about CE just don't have a 'need' for it - marketing is about creating need. Either way I think we all could be actively recruiting for HaloCE outside of our own circles (we already have it don't we?
). I know I haven't been. Every post could be an ad for HaloCE.I'd say the #1 reason the community shrinks is there is no continued excitement around it. #2 is probably the fact that you have to know something about computers to make it work. You can't just click a link and its installed and then sign up to a server and have the map auto-download. No, you have to install it after you find it, then you have to download the maps, unzip them and put them in the folder. THEN it works. I'd say that doesn't help.
However, Enemy Territory, the multiplayer stand-alone version of RTCW that ended up being much more than an addon is almost as hard to use and has a lot more following. I know ET is easier to map for, but then again its not Halo. We can still create need and energy around this 'product'.
As for mapping, I wouldn't want someone I didn't know pitching in on my map either unless I saw enough of their stuff to trust them, but I would be happy to have them help me through some trick they'd already discovered - that's what I had in mind about mappers getting together. I've seen a lot of mappers absolutely refuse to help another mapper with something because they were afraid someone might upstage them.
I agree too many chiefs can destroy the tribe though ...I was thinking more along the lines of people helping each other with ideas than actually helping on the maps.
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....
......
Other than that, did you have some suggestions for building the community?
Yes, marketing *can* be selling, but you can market free things too, my man.
From M-W.com:
2 : an aggregate of functions involved in moving goods from producer to consumer
But enough of semantics - call it what you will..perhaps 'promote' would suit us better...the community can grow and we can help, I feel certain. I'm looking for workable ideas to discuss.
From M-W.com:
2 : an aggregate of functions involved in moving goods from producer to consumer
But enough of semantics - call it what you will..perhaps 'promote' would suit us better...the community can grow and we can help, I feel certain. I'm looking for workable ideas to discuss.
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[users]axem
- Posts: 394
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theres one thing you need to know. Somethings in HCE need to be left alone. such as campaghn mode. If everyone knew how to make sp maps, that would most certinly kill halo ce. and speakingn of sp, my sp project will revive HCE just a little bit.
Peace
Peace
........dont ask for tag converting help........
I personally like Suggestion #1.
It would be nice that maybe (although it may be too much for this site to handle--but perhaps on the main page) members can get a special section in their profile dedicated to the maps ordeal. Perhaps it does not apply to everyone but those who play HaloCE, or ask for the panel.
They could put on their top five favorite maps (including a download, or link to download) and write a short review on the strengths, weaknesses, highlights, and content. Perhaps speak of Weapon Placement, Weapon Design (if new weapons were implemented), Vehicle Placement, Vehicle Design (if new vehicles were implemented), Base Design, Enviroment Design, Overall Design, Creativity, Uniqueness, Strategy (if any of any kind was implemented), et cetera.
This is something I personally like, because it is just a flat out great idea. If you have ever been to Newground.com, you notice how members have a window with stuff they have done (links to it) and links to things that they personally like.
If this cannot be done, then why not make an area on the main page for Reviews. And there can be a popular maps in that section, and the several different reviews from several members stating what I suggested above.
This may just be me, but I agree with it that much.
And this topic was made for discussing these issues, not for arguing over the topic title and title meaning. So I guess you can count this post as a "topic steadier". With bringing this topic back on topic, there is my opinion (since i always have one --those of you that know me, haha--)
It would be nice that maybe (although it may be too much for this site to handle--but perhaps on the main page) members can get a special section in their profile dedicated to the maps ordeal. Perhaps it does not apply to everyone but those who play HaloCE, or ask for the panel.
They could put on their top five favorite maps (including a download, or link to download) and write a short review on the strengths, weaknesses, highlights, and content. Perhaps speak of Weapon Placement, Weapon Design (if new weapons were implemented), Vehicle Placement, Vehicle Design (if new vehicles were implemented), Base Design, Enviroment Design, Overall Design, Creativity, Uniqueness, Strategy (if any of any kind was implemented), et cetera.
This is something I personally like, because it is just a flat out great idea. If you have ever been to Newground.com, you notice how members have a window with stuff they have done (links to it) and links to things that they personally like.
If this cannot be done, then why not make an area on the main page for Reviews. And there can be a popular maps in that section, and the several different reviews from several members stating what I suggested above.
This may just be me, but I agree with it that much.
And this topic was made for discussing these issues, not for arguing over the topic title and title meaning. So I guess you can count this post as a "topic steadier". With bringing this topic back on topic, there is my opinion (since i always have one --those of you that know me, haha--)
Thank You, SHOUTrvb, For This Fantastic Signature
Thanks for the response, Pie - I like opinions and intelligent discussion. I thank you for your contribution. I have also changed the topic title by replacing the word marketing with promotion as I am willing to compromise the concept is what is important.
I'm going to try to make a sig with a few things from HaloCE and maybe list a few good maps on the sig as well.
One thought: Specially modded weapons or vehicles do not neccessarily a good map make. I'm not saying special weapons aren't cool - just that a good map is a good map regardless of the weapons in it.
I personally intend to make standard halo weapon maps but I am going to try to make maps with impeccable balance and great models while maintaining good framerates through poly management. (hey I said *try* )
I am digressing a bit here, but when it comes to mapping, my personal thoughts, derived from many hours of gameplay on many engines, are that what sets a cool map apart from an okay or lame map is how much fun it is. Not just how cool it looks or what the weapons are, but how much fun you had- how immersive it was.
Anyways, I really liked your input, pie, into what members could do - I think that would be awesome. I would love someone to run with the idea - I'd be happy to sit on a panel to help develop standards for such a forum or site or whatever or for measuring maps' potential. Even if it was a 2 person or 3 person panel - kind of the siskel and ebert of the mapping community..LOL..*shrugs*
For now I'll try to do some of that through sigs I guess.
I'm going to try to make a sig with a few things from HaloCE and maybe list a few good maps on the sig as well.
One thought: Specially modded weapons or vehicles do not neccessarily a good map make. I'm not saying special weapons aren't cool - just that a good map is a good map regardless of the weapons in it.
I personally intend to make standard halo weapon maps but I am going to try to make maps with impeccable balance and great models while maintaining good framerates through poly management. (hey I said *try*
)I am digressing a bit here, but when it comes to mapping, my personal thoughts, derived from many hours of gameplay on many engines, are that what sets a cool map apart from an okay or lame map is how much fun it is. Not just how cool it looks or what the weapons are, but how much fun you had- how immersive it was.
Anyways, I really liked your input, pie, into what members could do - I think that would be awesome. I would love someone to run with the idea - I'd be happy to sit on a panel to help develop standards for such a forum or site or whatever or for measuring maps' potential. Even if it was a 2 person or 3 person panel - kind of the siskel and ebert of the mapping community..LOL..*shrugs*
For now I'll try to do some of that through sigs I guess.
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theguy2042000
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Awesome. I am going to try to make a sig that shows some one with a sword, someone as an elite, a flying covenant drop ship - maybe a skinned out warthog, maybe the fan from zanzibar (since everyone knows it) and have a line something like, "Ever wish you could do this in multiplayer Halo?" You can! Grab HaloCE here!" maybe have some faded out map names of some of my faves etc-maybe even some places like haloimpulse.com, halomods.com...depends on how it all fits together.
And in the spirit of collaboration, feel free to run with that idea, expand on it or anything you like along those lines.
And in the spirit of collaboration, feel free to run with that idea, expand on it or anything you like along those lines.
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theguy2042000
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i had a cool map once... it was going to be great... but i just needed to know how to do 1 important thing to make it all worth while... but unfortunately i got the response of: no u cant cuz we're doing it and we dont want anyone else to be able to do it.
i think that if there was a good way to share info on mapping, there would be many more good maps. im sure there are people out there who have an awesome idea but dont know that it is possible to do
i think that if there was a good way to share info on mapping, there would be many more good maps. im sure there are people out there who have an awesome idea but dont know that it is possible to do
I believe in sharing the knowledge - I mean its not like someone is going to be stealing your paycheck...after all, where would linux be today if people had all decided to keep their cool ideas to themselves? It wouldn't be - we should have open exchange of ideas, and fully share tricks and tips with each other.
Ultimately we are helping ourselves because we strengthen the community.
Ultimately we are helping ourselves because we strengthen the community.
For a map, since you obviously plan on making one, i can help you to any extent.
If yu have noticed, I've been helping a lot of people through various different concepts and ideas, and then giving constructive critisism to models and/or ideas. I know the basics of map-making, alongwith some advanced things. Also the basics of modeling (I make weapons ).
And since my map, Shafted, is a forced strategy map (as in if you dont use strategic ideas/teamwork, you have a ard cahnce at getting the flag). I could help you with strategy or layout, or many things. I may not be great at something in peticular (that is up to you though), but i'm pretty well rounded in all fields, enabling my help to venture out wide and not just in a conceded little circle.
If you wish to discuss this further, feel free to PM me, or even e-mail me at Flamesofbazaar@comcast.net.
If yu have noticed, I've been helping a lot of people through various different concepts and ideas, and then giving constructive critisism to models and/or ideas. I know the basics of map-making, alongwith some advanced things. Also the basics of modeling (I make weapons
). And since my map, Shafted, is a forced strategy map (as in if you dont use strategic ideas/teamwork, you have a ard cahnce at getting the flag). I could help you with strategy or layout, or many things. I may not be great at something in peticular (that is up to you though), but i'm pretty well rounded in all fields, enabling my help to venture out wide and not just in a conceded little circle.
If you wish to discuss this further, feel free to PM me, or even e-mail me at Flamesofbazaar@comcast.net.
Thank You, SHOUTrvb, For This Fantastic Signature
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[CAF]M808B
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