An open discussion.

[latinomodder]

Neither, go to xboxscenes to learn about the KK exploit and whatever else is required to obtain it seeing how I dont think this site condones discussion of the process to obtain a NAND dump

A. Have an early kernel xbox and boot the king kong exploit.

B. Buy an infectus 50eur that downgrades your xbox so that you can do step A

[SPARTAN-OMEGA]

So you only need the KK exploit? Im wasnt sure seeing how Ive used it once. And isnt downgrading the FW with an Inf chip a pain?

[jimmygoon]

I doubt he has an exploitable kernel and it would be just as easy to hook up a nand dumper than to try and do a hardware time attack to downgrade to load an exploit to boot linux to dump a nand... and cheaper.

It's not hard. I'm going to do it this weekend but I did that on my xbox when I lost my eeprom.bin file... schematics are online for lots of types of dumpers.

[kibito87]

This isn't about downgrading your xbox or exploiting it guys. Let's get back on topic.

[latinomodder]

I doubt he has an exploitable kernel and it would be just as easy to hook up a nand dumper than to try and do a hardware time attack to downgrade to load an exploit to boot linux to dump a nand... and cheaper.

It's not hard. I'm going to do it this weekend but I did that on my xbox when I lost my eeprom.bin file... schematics are online for lots of types of dumpers.

just to get it cleared up, how do you plan to decrypt that nand dump without your cpu key?

[Yamagushi]

As far as I can see this comes down to two main things.

1) Halo 3 modding is something that is expected of a site like HaloMods, thus Halomods should support this.

2) The Tools used in this can be used for other purposes that Halomods does not support.

What one must keep in mind is this is no different than xbox1 modding. To do halo 2 mods you must have a modded xbox. This can be used for things that Halomods does not support such as cheating.

Halomods supported the use of Halo 2 mods and taught its proper use. Many posts came up about cheating, Auto-aim, Rapid-fire, etc. These types of things were deleted. As with Halo 3 modding the same will happen, but is this not to be expected?

I believe Halomods should take the same route it did with Halo 2 and allow the use of such tools however monitor it and delete posts regarding unwanting things. It might be some work for the Moderators but id assume no more than Halo 2 was at its prime.

[xzodia]

I know it is but the person my original post was meant for was talking about MM mods in Halo 3 and I was telling him thats a .map mod not a CON mod...

Well there are .map files in CON files, so you should be more specific.

Theyre cache files, not an actually .map with a BSP and every tag for that map

Cache = Bitmap, Bitmap = Skinning. mb?

[Tural]

Not like that.

[Prey]

Reminds me of the whole DLC Resigner fiasco.. For those who aren't reminded..

• Halomods refused to host or link-to DLC resigners..
• A minority complained, but the majority went along with it because of the simple work-around: 'add the maps to the mainmenu'..

Now we have all-purpose CON resigners being released left, right and center.. what to do? People need a work-around of course: in the case of the DLC resigners, the absense of the 'fix' would have been contradictory as to why the site is even here: to mod halo. No shit of course..

With modified forge maps finally being able to be played by the general public - the very first of it's kind in respect to Halo 3 - Halomods will be expected to support this movement..

But of course this opens up all kinds of abuse to the XBL service.. Something Halomods is against. So how to overcome the problem?.. The idea has already been tossed around a few times.. and even hinted at that it is already in development..

A CON resigner restricted to only signing Halo 3 content, built with a server-sided script...

So with that sorted,.. the next problem then that I foresee is what form these variant files will now take before they can be uploaded to a server. I have noticed this has not been touched on yet - probably because that is not the main aim of this topic, so I will make it short.. - but of course I would not expect Halomods to support uploading modified forge files to Bungie's servers, as that's just damn right disrespectful..

The solution I propose is for another forge file structure to be created. Then before the user uploads their forge map, they convert it to the different file structure and thus are essentially uploading their 'own work'.. As has always been the case. Leave the copyrighted content with the user, and the 'user-created content' with Halomods..

Anyway in comparison, this is a very small subset of what will come out of publicly-accessible CON resigners. In essence millions of people will now be able to cheat their way through achievements and unlockables and whatever else. And many will. Thus I think it a must that this site does not become known as a source (which we all know with the reputation it holds, it will) to what is essentially the biggest blow - read: BIG - the XBL service has ever received.

Otherwise, Halomods is basically just going back on what it has done for so long, which is take XBL breaches very seriously. And even actively put measures in place to stop such things immediately..

..so, at the end of the day...XBL is awesome - read: AWESOME - and helping in the process of ruining it by agreeing all-purpose CON resigners should be acceptable just makes you a fucking fool in my eyes.

[Tural]

The people with knowledge to abuse it are few and far between, and those who want to, will, whether Halomods supports it or not. Also, the people who would do that have probably already been banned from here, and are doing it on another site. I know I'm not practicing what I preach, but I'd be ignorant to exclude it.

"Otherwise, Halomods is basically just going back on what it has done for so long, which is take XBL breaches very seriously. And even actively put measures in place to stop such things immediately.. "
This intrigues me, and, dare I say, persuades me.
We could publish a tool that is restricted to Halo 3, but there's no point in tying it to a server, because people who want to work around the application restrictions will be able to anyways. It would be extra work, and no benefit would be gained. People would rather just use a different tool than decompile the one we have, the latter would just be a huge waste of time and effort.

[Prey]

We could publish a tool that is restricted to Halo 3, but there's no point in tying it to a server, because people who want to work around the application restrictions will be able to anyways. It would be extra work, and no benefit would be gained. People would rather just use a different tool than decompile the one we have, the latter would just be a huge waste of time and effort.

The reason for tying it to a server is because the internal workings then wouldn't be accessible to the general public.. Also verifications - which the details of are kept on the 'down low' - can be used to check out if it is processing a Halo 3 file or not. The main reason for server-siding it is that the verification process stays in the shadows.

Then, despite whether people use it or not, Halomods can rest easy that it isn't restricting forge mods, but at the same time aren't contributing to the mass cheating that the released general-purpose CON resigners will (or potentially can) result in.

[Tural]

But like I said, people who want to abuse it won't try through the HM tool, they will just get one of the others that doesn't make them go through a bunch of hoops. It would be stupid of them to try to use this site's anyways, it would be a colossal waste of time and effort.

[Nuklear]

Well, my website archives all released Halo 3 forge variants and offers them as a download. People will have to use XSS or a similar tool to change profile/device ID's.

I was thinking about creating an application that converts usermaps into a custom file format for everyone to share. To use it, you'll have to use the same application to "patch" the edited content onto a blank forge variant.

After creating a patching system, I can convert my website to host those patch files instead of usermaps.

This way will eliminate all legality issues.

Well, other forums and websites which offer the resigners are doing fine and had no problems with legal issues so far. Last time I checked, if you host a resigner on another server and link to it, it won't be illegal. Correct me if I'm wrong.

It'll be sheer ignorance to "protect" XBL not offering a resigner hosted on another website because anyone who wants to mod will come visit this website and sees that it doesn't have a signer, that person will find another website which offers it and join them instead of this community.

You're not protecting XBL by not offering a signer, you're just delaying them from the signer. In the end, they still get the signer. So, in my opinion, we should allow signers to be posted here to attract potential people who can revolutionize Halo 3 modding. By not offering the signer, it is hurting HaloMods.

[Prey]

But like I said, people who want to abuse it won't try through the HM tool, they will just get one of the others that doesn't make them go through a bunch of hoops. It would be stupid of them to try to use this site's anyways, it would be a colossal waste of time and effort.

The point I am making is that the server-sided code can't be accessed. A stand-alone application's code can..

As the server-sided code can't be accessed, we know that we aren't helping anyone find out how to resign CON files. So they'll go to another site as you say, at which point they cease to become our problem..

A stand-alone application on the other hand can be decompiled, and probably will be if it were released, so to make the code work for all CON files..

Obviously you can say that we aren't responsible for this, but in essence we are simply supporting something that we know has a serious flaw in - being reverse-engineers ourselves - and that it wouldn't take a programmer of much skill to find and manipulate it to their own ends.

Of course, as you say, why go through that hassle of all that when the source is available openly elsewhere? Although that would require the user to actually know it was available open-source elsewhere in the first place.. But in the case that they don't hang round those websites, they'll only see the application that Halomods supports..so they'll just download that and think they're 'original' when they choose to 'extend' it themselves..

Coming back to my point, which I feel was somewhat missed, I thought it best for Halomods to support a closed-off resigner just for Halo 3 files where there were no exploitable loopholes..

A stand-alone application doesn't provide that..

But regardless, I see one has already been released here..

I guess you can just shoot down what I said by saying that no-one is responsible for decompilation of the program, but to be honest, with something this big (and when we all know about de-compiling) I would have said we were.. :\

EDIT: I see the application has been obfuscated, I see that as the final nail in the coffin for my point.. Disregard everything I said above... (no-one would be stupid enough to go through that many hoops )

@Nuklear: If they get the resigner from another source other than Halomods, then that is that. At least we sleep easy at night that we didn't contribute to the potential demise of the core aspects of the XBL service...

[jimmygoon]

First, the cat is out of the bag. I, and surely many others have the source on their computers, the process is documented and could be repeated even if all info was erased.

Secondly, the new tool rocks, thanks grimdoomer.

Third, @ Tural. In regards to the new rules thread I have two and a half questions: First, should usermaps be posted with valid signatures (doesn't that risk a users KV being banned. Second, does Bungie care if people put them in their own fileshare? I know they don't want them in the community area and that's respectable... but have they said about the other... The only reason I ask is because it would be a nice, easy, convinient way for people to play if one person w/ Bungie Pro had them on their file share...

also, I would assume unmodified screenshots of modified maps are also not cool?

@latinomodder, excuse my nonsense. I forgot about that.

edit, er, has XSE always been able to resign maps? It's been out for... a long time... hasn't it?
edit2, the other nice thing would be if the resigners had set an arbitrary bit/byte to flag it as modified to bungie so they could limit their uploading.

[unknownv2]

Keep it off Bungie.net is what I've heard.

[Ghostlypickel]

Err... Isn't the whole resigning process illegal anyways?

[jimmygoon]

Err... Isn't the whole resigning process illegal anyways?

illegal? It's my xbox, my game, my hard drive, my keys, I'm not stealing them. The reverse engineering for the KV is, but if someone else gave you one...

It's too bad that one person can't horde content in their private fileshare. Would be nice, but sadly too tempting for some to share undoubtedly.

[Ghostlypickel]

But the signing of the keys I do believe is illegal.

[Yamagushi]

Err... Isn't the whole resigning process illegal anyways?

illegal? It's my xbox, my game, my hard drive, my keys, I'm not stealing them. The reverse engineering for the KV is, but if someone else gave you one...

It's too bad that one person can't horde content in their private fileshare. Would be nice, but sadly too tempting for some to share undoubtedly.

No its not yours. You do not own any of it. You are using it all under an agreement which states you cant do things like this. EULA agreement to name one of them. So yes it is Illegal.