Halo 3 Retail Game Research

Digdoger · Post by **Digdoger** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 1:23 pm

Okay really noob question but in Johnson (currently v 1.4) they have a tab with a resigner. Whats the deal with that if no one who knows how to make a resigner is willing to release it. is it just for show or does it actually work? only ask because I can't try for myself for a bit

Tural · Post by **Tural** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 1:26 pm

It probably resigns something, but there is more that needs to be resigned to make the maps work. Currently, not a single person anywhere can properly resign maps to work on a retail console.

Supermodder911 · Post by **Supermodder911** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 1:28 pm

Just for future reference Johnson only signs the Checksum, Not the other hashes.

Digdoger · Post by **Digdoger** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 1:37 pm

Okay thanks for answering that. Also I had a crazy idea. What if you made the forge style mods like we know Anthony can and then put them onto a disk, run that through a modded 360 and system link a normal 360 to that, go into a system link game of forge and save the map. Would that work if someone made a mod disk for halo 3?

Tural · Post by **Tural** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 1:38 pm

Forge variants don't go on the disc.
You don't need a modded console to use Forge variants.

Digdoger · Post by **Digdoger** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 1:47 pm

Tural wrote:Forge variants don't go on the disc.
You don't need a modded console to use Forge variants.

Not really what I meant. You know how there are all these problems with resigner and getting the content to your 360 yady yada? well what if you were to put any modded content onto a modded 360 and use the save map feature on a slandered 360 to play it? It may work with more then just the forge style mods. I guess a re-description of my idea would be: Somehow use a modded xbox 360 to read the maps with or without them going through a signing process. then from the modded 360 you transfer that data to a slandered 360 via recent maps, save as new map, or maybe transferring the cached map data on the modded 360's hdd to the normal hdd. There may be a chance that in one of these processes the game/system will actually correct the map data it's self. If done so then we would not need a resigner. Worth a shot IMO I just don't have the stuff to do it.

Tural · Post by **Tural** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 1:49 pm

That would not work at all.
You can't transfer map files via recent maps. They are several hundred megabytes, and they do not get transfered when you play them. The Recent Maps section is Forge variants, not map files.

Digdoger · Post by **Digdoger** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 1:58 pm

okay point raised. What if someone made a program to compare the data contained in two different .map files? they could see the changes from the normal and the modified versions and try to determine the differences. if they were to say edit guardian and construct to both have a proj swap on the magnum for it's bullets to be rockets they could find the similarities in the differences list compiled by the program. Logically the differences in the separate map comparisons would be identical for the magnum's proj changes but the part that needs to be signed would also show up in the changes. you could then isolate what the original versions of those were and replace that part in the modified map to be normal. Kind of a more brutish attempt at resigning. I hope that remotely makes sense, I know in my minds eye it was crystal but I could see people looking at this and going uh.... wtf?

Tural · Post by **Tural** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 2:00 pm

If you change the map, it needs to be resigned. You described how to modify a map, but you failed to mention anything about resigning it, which is the entire problem. You can swap all the projectiles you want, it doesn't matter how you do it, but you have to resign the map after you do, or else the game will know the map has been modified, because the signatures will not match. Maps can't be properly resigned, so your scenario would be impossible.

It isn't possible. There isn't a way around it. Unless someone gets the private key (Which would take someone at Bungie leaking it, or someone spending millions of years to brute force it), it just isn't going to happen. There is no magic solution that nobody has thought of. There just isn't.

Digdoger · Post by **Digdoger** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 2:06 pm

Tural wrote:If you change the map, it needs to be resigned. You described how to modify a map, but you failed to mention anything about resigning it, which is the entire problem. You can swap all the projectiles you want, it doesn't matter how you do it, but you have to resign the map after you do, or else the game will know the map has been modified, because the signatures will not match. Maps can't be properly resigned, so your scenario would be impossible.

It isn't possible. There isn't a way around it. Unless someone gets the private key (Which would take someone at Bungie leaking it, or someone spending millions of years to brute force it), it just isn't going to happen. There is no magic solution that nobody has thought of. There just isn't.

Okay so you didn't get that you would make one change on each just to cause the map to show up as modified did you? the change would be identical so you can factor it out by matching up in the parts that have been determined as altered. the rest that would appear in the lists would have to be the coding of the map that you would need to resign. so if you were to copy what that part originally was you could logically paste it over the altered version and to the game the map would look unaltered. I know its a long shot but thats what thinking outside the box is for right?

Tural · Post by **Tural** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 2:07 pm

That is not the way it works.

Digdoger · Post by **Digdoger** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 2:22 pm

read the whole thing, once you finish it makes sense

Finding the BxR in halo 3 was a cinch. Don't believe I found it go to my youtube profile page. user name is the same as it is here just all lowercase. Don't believe something can be easy to do? you just try to hard... well good for you, I look where people miss and for the most part it works out. Don't like my advice? well instead of just bashing it suggest a better way, don't say you did because there are only two levels of how well an idea works here, it either does or it doesn't. I don't mean to argue I just find that some people think a little to narrowly on how something should go. I may have been right, can't disprove until you try it, obviously thinking the way people have been has not worked out so well yet and after this long I would start to be thinking out of the box if I were you guys.

unknownv2 · Post by **unknownv2** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 2:24 pm

We don't try it because with the knowledge we already have about map files, it makes your idea completely pointless to try.

Tural · Post by **Tural** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 2:25 pm

To be honest, it doesn't make sense because it's incoherent. It's a stream of consciousness, not a well-thought out plan of action. I can't follow what you're saying half of the time, because it just seems like rambling. I've read your posts over several times, and I still barely have any idea what you're trying to say.

Digdoger · Post by **Digdoger** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 2:39 pm

Yea I was kinda rambling, basically it stated that sometimes simple is the answer. I gave the example that there is a BxR in halo 3 I have it on my youtube page ( www.youtube.com/digdoger ) if you want to see it. and that to pull it off was simpler then most people thought. It was just an example of simplicity over complications.

Tural · Post by **Tural** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 2:42 pm

That is not the same at all. Just because you can show something is easy when people thought it was hard does not mean everything is like that. There is no way around the signature, at all. There is no simple way that we don't know of. There just isn't. That's all there is to it. You have nothing to show for any claim you make about it, and you know you do not understand the process of it, so why do you keep defending your suggestions when people who do know what they are talking about tell you that you are wrong? You're getting no where, because you are wrong, plain and simple. It can't be done how you suggest.

antszy101 · Post by **antszy101** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 2:57 pm

Digdoger, your logic makes no sense whatsoever. For example, when you say "well instead of just bashing it suggest a better way", thats not possible because they have tried all the other ways. They have been working on this since the game came out. Just because you put out a bad idea doesn't mean they can automatically think of a new, better one. In regards to that as well, just because they can't on the spot think of a new idea, that doesn't mean they are going to say your idea is fine and dandy when they see obvious flaws.

Veegie · Post by **Veegie** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 6:17 pm

Digdoger wrote:read the whole thing, once you finish it makes sense

Finding the BxR in halo 3 was a cinch. Don't believe I found it go to my youtube profile page. user name is the same as it is here just all lowercase. Don't believe something can be easy to do? you just try to hard... well good for you, I look where people miss and for the most part it works out. Don't like my advice? well instead of just bashing it suggest a better way, don't say you did because there are only two levels of how well an idea works here, it either does or it doesn't. I don't mean to argue I just find that some people think a little to narrowly on how something should go. I may have been right, can't disprove until you try it, obviously thinking the way people have been has not worked out so well yet and after this long I would start to be thinking out of the box if I were you guys.

*whoosh*
What in the fuck are you trying to say?

RubyBigBallin · Post by **RubyBigBallin** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 8:00 pm

Digdoger wrote:Yea I was kinda rambling, basically it stated that sometimes simple is the answer. I gave the example that there is a BxR in halo 3 I have it on my youtube page ( www.youtube.com/digdoger ) if you want to see it. and that to pull it off was simpler then most people thought. It was just an example of simplicity over complications.

There are alot of things in programing and reverse engerneiring that you dont under stand. Befor you Try to give advice you should read up on how a .map file is constructed. Learn y you need to resign the encryption and further more, think if it was as easy as your advice gives then y does it take a group of highly skilled programers months and still cant find a way but you think you have. The base line is "You will never be able to play un-signed maps on a normal xbox because of the security system set in place by microsoft to stop ppl from playing motified data such as modded games. If you know about halo 2 modding you had to resign everthing to mod also. Same concept defferent code to crack. At least from what i understand.

Had To Add, Unless you have time to learn programing stick to glitching lol sorry had to.

Also just an idea. Probley useless idea but would it be any help looking into the way xbox 360 connects to xna game studio to get ideas to further advance research?? <<< Newb lol.

Connecting to Your Xbox 360 Console with XNA Game Studio 2.0

Code: Select all

http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb975643.aspx#ID2EBB

haxalot88 · Post by **haxalot88** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 9:57 am

Can I point out a bit of info please?
Ok, well I have been busy working on the RSA for a few weeks now, and I finally came to light on something.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it is thought that the hash is stored at 0x36C and is 256 bytes long, the hash is also calculated by running a SHA1 on 0x3000 to EOF, and that the exponent for decryption is 65537 correct?
Well when I finally decided to calculate the modulus, one of those is incorrect. If I need to, I'll show what I did, but the one thing that I did figure out is that that combination does not work, so either one or more of those 3 things is wrong.
My guess (what I hope) is that the idea of where the modulus is stored is in a wrong place, and that was simply mistaken.